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Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

nytimes.com

191–200 of 735 posts

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#191
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m impressed. This is one of the strangest opinions I’ve ever seen. What is special about “at use”? Presumably because it lets you avoid the question of whether everyone should get a free car. Does a monthly car payment count as “at use”? Why not if a monthly transit pass does? The other replies point out that different forms of transit compete with each other, so the more cars we have, the fewer bikes and trains.

Because once an investment has been made in a car and roads or in a train line or whatever there should be no artificial distinctive for people to use it as they deem appropriate.

As others have said, you are describing a totally imaginary world where money is the only cost. “Artificial” is doing all the work. But the very investments you’re describing are “artificial”, and more than that, they require constant spending to maintain. Why should cost at point of use be the only artificial incentive? What about the environment created by those investments? The quality of roads, the cleanliness of the train? Your distinction is contrived in service of your predetermined conclusion.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#192
post #36

Impressive how cars are harmful to society. This is just a small example. We should be more radical in preventing the use of individual automobiles. If it works in a country where the auto is so ingrained in the culture and lifestyle, it can work anywhere.

NYC is an extreme outlier. The city itself is older than America, older than the British colonies even. It was built by the Dutch . It's infrastructure is closer to Tokyo's[0] than any other American city. Congestion charge works in NYC because anyone driving solo into Manhattan is either an idiot or a cop[1]. In any other city, congestion charge would be an effective tax on mobility, because every other city is so c…

> Most cities don't even have a downtown to protect from cars, they're just suburban sprawl forever.

This is completely untrue.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#193
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Manhattan, and was very well paid. I did not own a car, and loved it. This would have been great for me as well.

Did you have children or did you live alone?

Car-centric design is hell for parents and kids alike.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car. Car-centric urban planning is hell with kids. You have to load them up into the car for any small trip. You can't walk or bike anywhere because cars make it so dangerous. My only regret about living in the US is this car hellscape that is so hard to avoid. It's mandated by law, not chosen by…

Having a dinky appartment that is still expensive is not worth it unless you’re young and don’t have kids and want to be around everything you care about. Or you’re rich and don’t mind paying a fortune to live in a nicer appartment in Manhattan. If I had the money I would still prefer something outside Manhattan just to be able to avoid the noise pollution, the crowds and all that Manhattan commotion.

I hear that noise pollution in Manhattan has gotten better since congestion pricing started.

Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#195
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already had A/B testing of congestion pricing. The A test was without congestion pricing in NYC, and has been tested for decades.

you haven't described the observations or the sample

TFA describes this extensively. The observations are traffic speed, bus timeliness, and over a dozen other metrics. The samples are sub-areas of NYC.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a dinky appartment that is still expensive is not worth it unless you’re young and don’t have kids and want to be around everything you care about. Or you’re rich and don’t mind paying a fortune to live in a nicer appartment in Manhattan. If I had the money I would still prefer something outside Manhattan just to be able to avoid the noise pollution, the crowds and all that Manhattan commotion.

I hear that noise pollution in Manhattan has gotten better since congestion pricing started. Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

> Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

EVs have entered the chat

Still, I'd always prefer less cars and more transit.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car. Car-centric urban planning is hell with kids. You have to load them up into the car for any small trip. You can't walk or bike anywhere because cars make it so dangerous. My only regret about living in the US is this car hellscape that is so hard to avoid. It's mandated by law, not chosen by…

Having a dinky appartment that is still expensive is not worth it unless you’re young and don’t have kids and want to be around everything you care about. Or you’re rich and don’t mind paying a fortune to live in a nicer appartment in Manhattan. If I had the money I would still prefer something outside Manhattan just to be able to avoid the noise pollution, the crowds and all that Manhattan commotion.

Almost 60% of US households have no kids in them [1]. We can infer demand for Manhattan housing stock by vacancy rates and rent levels [2] [3] [4] [5].

[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-american-households-hav...

[2] https://www.mns.com/manhattan_rental_market_report

[3] https://inhabit.corcoran.com/nyc-residential-rental-market-r...

[4] https://www.brickunderground.com/rent/nyc-manhattan-brooklyn...

[5] https://www.elliman.com/corporate-resources/market-reports/n...

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#198
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best decision would be to completely forbid individual transport. Now the common space dedicated to streets is for who can pay extra. Forbid individual transport and create some parks and pedestrian streets.

Extremes rarely work out well. The people paying for the luxury are funding improvements for everyone.

this is worth thinking about. The idea that the small toll charge actually pays for the streets it covers is flat out untrue. The citizens of the US vastly subsidize the streets and roads of the country. Just purchasing the land used for roads in Manhattan would cost a massive fortune and the people paying taxes in the US have and are paying for it. Not to mention the cost of maintaining the roads (physical infra) and policing the roads. So if NY put the land to more productive use and didn't have to maintain the roads I think they could save a lot of money.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. It must be that I associate rats with NYC. You used some terms that not everyone is familair with, I jump to the wrong conclusion, taking some guesses as to what you're talking about, and here we are.

ratfucking as a term in political context was dramatically popularized by the movie All the President’s Men, where a (historical) character describes his covert political actions thusly. Accordingly, it’s a dc

Term, not one I would ordinarily associate with an actual rat infestation or with NYc.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that noise pollution in Manhattan has gotten better since congestion pricing started. Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

> Cities aren't loud; cars are loud. EVs have entered the chat Still, I'd always prefer less cars and more transit.

In my experience, EVs are nearly as loud as IC, as the majority of the noise at typical stroad speeds comes from the tires, not the engine.
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