Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#251

Post by sf_rob » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 5:54 PM UTC

ta8645 wrote: post #223

sf_rob wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until Tesla changes their Model 3 sourcing to be eligible for the $7500 tax credit, I don’t understand who would buy one over the Model Y even with the “highland” improvements.

I don't know if it's the tax credit you're referring to, but in that video (15:35), they claim with tax credits the model 3 is available for under $30,000 https://youtu.be/WLMalLy_3JU?t=935

Only the performance Model 3 is currently eligible for the Federal tax credit[1]. They may be referring to some generous state EV credits.

[1] https://insideevs.com/news/700533/tesla-model-3-rwd-long-ran...

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#252

Post by cavisne » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 5:57 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #91

hn72774 wrote: post #73

Could it be that Musk's inflammatory language and behaviors are a turn off for potential buyers? They are a turn off for me. I like the vehicles but I'd never get one.

It's such a shame that he's sullying his reputation like this. Howard Hughes-like. He could have retired in a blaze of glory a couple of years ago, straight into the pantheon of epic American entrepreneurs.

Very unlikely, Bezos & Gates basically did that and they are still massive targets of criticism.

If Elon had decided to just roll over a couple years ago and do everything the media asked him to do (shutdown the Fremont factory during covid, stop "polluting the sky" with starlink, rely on a nice unionized automaker like GM to "lead the EV revolution") Tesla & SpaceX wouldn't exist today.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#253

Post by mschuster91 » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:03 PM UTC

ein0p wrote: post #212

ericmay wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Kind of a confusing statement. Sure the current state doesn't work in the US, which is because it isn't designed to work and there is little to no investment or money spent on public transit. You can know that this is factually true by looking at your state department of highways budgets and examining how funds are allocated…

_Transit_ is not what needs to change first. Infrastructure (stores, schools, daycares, hospitals, offices) needs to change before mass transit is even feasible. And that needs to be built out over an extended period of time, like 15-20 years, to have good coverage. This is particularly hard to grasp for someone who has never lived in Europe, which I have. So we “invest” in mass transit which (at least in my neck of…

> Infrastructure (stores, schools, daycares, hospitals, offices) needs to change before mass transit is even feasible. And that needs to be built out over an extended period of time, like 15-20 years, to have good coverage.

It's a chicken and egg problem in the end. A government has it easier to just dump funds for 10-20 years onto public transit subsidies (and provide the guarantee to the third parties you mention that any investment they make isn't going to be in vain) than if it convinces and pays off all these third parties to change before there is a viable public transit system.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#254

Post by nunez » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:07 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #202

ein0p wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think public mass transit will take over in the US in my lifetime, outside major cities. We're just too spread out, and a lot of us, especially people with kids, like it that way. Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child.

> Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Kind of a confusing statement. Sure the current state doesn't work in the US, which is because it isn't designed to work and there is little to no investment or money spent on public transit. You can know that this is factually true by looking at your state department of highways budgets and examining how funds are allocated…

Cities in those countries, for the most part, were built around public transit. As a result, navigating by car is difficult and sometimes costly.

Retrofitting public transit into a city designed for cars at that same scale is unbelievably expensive before the costs of changing public opinion are factored in.

I say this as someone who dislikes what suburbs have become and would _love_ to see public transit proliferate throughout the US.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#255

Post by Workaccount2 » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:17 PM UTC

ianburrell wrote: post #222

Workaccount2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just do an offering. That stock has held it's stupidly massive over valuation for 5+ years now. Just dump it on whatever dumb ass investors have been propping the stock up.

Have you looked at Tesla stock recently? The stock is down 5% today to 166. It was 250 at beginning of year, so dropped 30%. The peak was 400 in 2021, and dropped to 113 in 2023. I think it is still overpriced and can drop further, but it has lost its shine. They will make less money from offering, and it would probably tank the stock. And there is no sign they need the money.

The company is currently valued at $530 billion.

Compare this to Toyota, who sold 11 million cars last year (~20x Tesla), is worth $385 billion.

It is still grossly over valued.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#256

Post by cameldrv » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:18 PM UTC

ChumpGPT wrote: post #68

nixgeek wrote: post #42

Some friends bought a Model X about six months ago, spending over $100k — that’s down from the almost $150k that Tesla was demanding a couple years ago when we bought one (and both were fairly fully loaded). First, my experience 2 years ago was the A/C compressor was so loud that during summer with cooling running at maximum, you couldn’t hold a conversation in the cabin because of the noise. Tesla investigated and e…

You're not buying quality when you buy Tesla, you're buying fashion. if you want quality buy a Toyota/Lexus.

The thing is, I'd say Rivian is considerably more fashionable at this point. The only problem with them is potentially going out of business.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#257

Post by cameldrv » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:20 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #196

themaninthedark wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have EV sports cars, SUV, trucks and package vans but I have not seen an EV passenger van. I suppose they are out of fashion right now but honestly that is the form factor that I would be most interested in. I could use it for both home projects but also with the longer body it would have have a fairly decent range so wouldn't be bad for the family road trips. I don't like the idea of having to stop every 2 or 3 h…

Chrysler Pacifica PHEV should be mostly electric on daily drives and then gasoline for the long trips. Honestly, passenger van / road trip vehicle makes the most sense in PHEV form factor out of all other styles IMO.

Yes on paper this looks like a great and very practical vehicle for many people, but boy am I hesitant to buy a Chrysler product with this amount of drivetrain complexity. You've got everything that can fail in a fairly high tech ICE drivetrain, plus everything that can fail in an EV drivetrain, made by the lowest reliability major automaker.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#258

Post by akmarinov » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:21 PM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #47

bethekind wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robot taxis not coming soon enough?

I was under the impression (admittedly from an article I read a couple of years ago) that the consensus within the company was pretty much always that robo-taxis were one man’s pipe dream. Weren’t there also disclosure documents a couple of years ago when they were trying to license autopilot that said they believed internally they were at level 2 as opposed to 4/5? (I might be remembering this part wrong)

Everyone knows they’re at level 2. Level 4/5 is completely hands off, no supervision.

Not even their Supervised Full Self Driving does that

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#259

Post by nunez » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

ein0p wrote: post #219

mschuster91 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child. Here in Munich, one of the densest cities in Europe, I took the subway alone at age 7. There's nothing preventing US kids from doing the same with a bus, no matter if driven by a human or by some sort of autonomous system - except that US infrastructure at large is completely focused on cars and has zero respect for anyone n…

Note that Munich itself is built for this. You can’t drop a bus line into an existing layout and expect that it’ll magically work. Which is what most mass transit projects in the US seem to be attempting to do. IOW it’s not even _transit itself_ that makes this feasible in Europe. It’s how they build the rest of their spaces.

It's unfortunate that this is the exact strategy that many politicians and government people default to.

"We got $200M in federal money for improving transportation. Let's spend $50M on it adding a station to this light rail we built 20 years ago to win federal money _that_ time and spend $150M on adding five miles of express lanes to the interstate."

Perfect example. I lived in Dallas for five years. Denton, a city about 45 miles north of downtown Dallas, operates this "commuter rail" line called the A-Train. This line has existed since 2006.

Denton is one of the biggest college towns in Texas. It has two of the biggest universities in Texas (TWU, UNT).

The A-Train doesn't stop at _either college_.

The A-Train also doesn't stop anywhere near where people actually live unless you live in downtown Denton (few people do). So, to use it, you have to drive (or take the DCTA bus, which, lol, don't) to a station to take this train which terminates...

...about 20 miles from downtown Dallas. You need to connect in Carrollton (a station you _definitely_ have to drive to) to take the Dallas Area Regional Transit train, which has a larger network (that still doesn't bring you anywhere you want to go, at least not directly)

The entire system was set up this way because the A-Train runs along one of the busiest segments of Interstate 35E. It runs up this segment because that's where the pre-existing rail was.

This segment is 8 miles.

That rail network goes ALL THE WAY UP TO KANSAS AND ALL THE WAY DOWN TO GALVESTON.

So, to summarize, two of the biggest cities in Texas have a commuter rail that connects them, on a relatively super small segment of rail that was already laid down, but takes passengers to stations where they will need a car to complete their trip.

Oh, and the A-Train only has, like, six stations, operates every 30 minutes between 0600 and 2200 on weekdays and every hour on Saturday, and is closed on Sunday because Texas.

The crazy part about this is that DESPITE ALL OF THIS, this is _still_ better than the *zero* rail service we have in Houston (the biggest and most populated city in Texas).

_This_ is why public transit is an incredibly hard problem to solve here. It will take billions and billions of dollars to _just_ develop DART, Houston's METRO and Austin's Capital into anything closely resembling a real public transit network. Most folks will just vote for a new stadium or more lanes to get stuck in.

(The kicker? I just learned that a section of the Missouri-Kansas-Texas network that the A-Train rides on in Houston was scrapped in 1998 to become...part of Katy Freeway, the 12+ lane monstrosity that absolutely completely fills up every rush hour like clockwork.)

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#260

Post by akmarinov » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:28 PM UTC

VBprogrammer wrote: post #45

Tesla are still producing cars which have the same design elements as the Model S did in 2012. I'm amazed they have pulled that off but maybe the lack of "freshness" is also hurting their bottom line?

Model S and X aren’t big volume movers. The 3 and Y are, that’s why they’re getting refreshes.