Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

link.springer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 662 posts

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#251

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

gfodor wrote: post #223
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is some significant probability that we may ultimately determine this to be the case I still don't see proof of that. > But probabilities matter when you are deploying policies like mandating kids take this drug to go to college. Again, this study doesn't involve "kids".

You already implies you agree with my claim about it not being unreasonable when you said “as well.” I guess you retract that? And again: this study is just one of many studies that have lead to my prior. The rate of myocarditis is well established, the population size is well established, the open question is the fatality rate. The unreasonable part comes from putting a lower bound on the death rate based on some as…

> You already implies you agree with my claim about it not being unreasonable when you said “as well.” I guess you retract that?

Yes, I was trying to show polite respect for your point and not actually endorse it, but to be clear, I don't believe there is enough evidence to assume that tens of thousands of young people died, especially not with this article, and especially when you consider that the acknowledged gap in your knowledge is the fatality rate.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#252

Post by ceejayoz »

jgalt212 wrote: post #232
mrtksn wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This paper doesn't claim that mRNA vaccines are dangerous, it investigates through autopsy 35 people in a region of Germany who died within 20 days of vaccination and only 5 of the deaths are found to show myocarditis of which only 3 somewhat might be attributed to the vaccine. This is not an expose of big Pharma or anything like that, I don't know why the HN comments are acting as if this is some kind of research su…

Fair enough, but everyone was compelled to get the vaccine (regardless of age or risk factors). Given that, the vaccine makers and proponents leave themselves open to such criticisms that would not be valid if the vaccine was not compelled on my 7 year old.

Where do you live that COVID vaccination is compulsory for a seven year old?

In the US, the 5-11 age range has only 38% having had even the first dose. https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19...

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#253

Post by SnowProblem »

Why is it so hard to find data showing how often people are dying, no matter the cause, broken down by vaccination status and age? Surely that would help clear things up. Lots of countries publish COVID-19 mortality rates which show benefits for vaccinated but that's really not helpful for understanding overall risk of vaccines. The UK is the only country I could find that publishes this data and unless I'm missing something things look really bad. Table 2 in [1] shows a 2-3x higher mortality rate for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated in almost all groups this year. Perhaps the unvaccinated are healthier on average, maybe, but 2-3x healthier? Yeah, don't think so. What's going on?

[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde....

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#254

Post by driggs »

tempsy wrote: post #164
vannevar wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here isn't the study---of course we should study possible vaccine side effects. The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. As unlikely as it is that an otherwise healthy young person will die from covid, it is even less likely that they'll d…

Ok, so if you believe your chance of dying of covid is improbably small due to age and overall health, why is it necessary to be vaccinated even if there's only a small chance of side effects? Rare is not zero. I don't even take OTC pain killers like advil unless I absolutely feel like I have to.

No post body was provided.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#255

Post by fzeroracer »

gfodor wrote: post #240
fzeroracer wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that the mechanism with which the vaccine can cause myocarditis might be the exact same mechanism that triggers myocarditis but worse for people who catch COVID-19, as brought up in the study. If the myocarditis is the result of the immune system's response to the spike protein then both COVID-19 and the COVID-19 vaccine will trigger myocarditis in those individuals. In this case the 'mechanism' is…

So the argument is that if the vaccine causes this the same way COVID does, the risk of death would have been higher had they got COVID? You’ll have to excuse my skepticism, because setting things up so that we end up in a situation where it’s entirely unfalsifiable if the vaccine caused net harm in an individual has been par for the course. I reject the premise that even if it’s an immunological response shared by w…

We literally know COVID yields a higher risk profile for myocarditis. This data has been well captured through multiple studies. And that's just solely on the basis of myocarditis and not the other side effects we're also aware of like the damage to lung tissue, blood clotting and more.

To provide an allegory, you are trying to point of the incidence rate of myocarditis in the smallpox vaccine and claiming that the smallpox vaccine was more dangerous than smallpox itself.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#256

Post by TheCrownedFox »

oneoff786 wrote: post #220
TheCrownedFox wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What special privileges are being garnered? The topsy-turvy world of the religious person existing as the exception rather than the rule is quite odd to me. But regardless, in the USA the religious exemption policy is incredibly diverse and welcoming, you are correct on that. You do not even need to communicate with your God in expressible ways to other people. What should be the limit on someone's divine communicati…

> What special privileges are being garnered? The exemption > What should be the limit on someone's divine communication and the restrictions upon the government they live under? None. But your definition of divine communication should not override otherwise unrelated rules.

I would posit that the special privilege has been given to the non-religious, in that they have been able to openly discriminate against religious people in violation of existing laws.

I would suggest looking into the EEOC regulations mentioned by someone else in this thread and Title VII of the 1964 civil rights act.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#257

Post by ceejayoz »

driggs wrote: post #254
tempsy wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so if you believe your chance of dying of covid is improbably small due to age and overall health, why is it necessary to be vaccinated even if there's only a small chance of side effects? Rare is not zero. I don't even take OTC pain killers like advil unless I absolutely feel like I have to.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Because vaccination prevents you from spreading covid to others...

I agree with your general point, but to be clear, it likely reduces your chances of doing that, to some extent. It does not prevent you from spreading COVID.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#258

Post by Daishiman »

addingadimensio wrote: post #211
Eisenstein wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We require young people to get vaccinated as a rule in order to obtain education. Every medical intervention involves risks. So does taking a shower or taking the bus to school. We all have to take risks and some of them are mandated for the good of society. There were very good indications that the vaccine would prevent spread. Public policy decisions which cost lives are not unusual and although tragic, are often n…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#259

Post by nradov »

nluken wrote: post #65

"Interestingly, we recorded inflammatory foci predominantly in the right heart, which may suggest a gradual blood-stream derived dilution effect and based on this finding it is at least tempting to speculate that inadvertent intravascular vaccine injection may be contributive." Does this indicate that the authors believe aspirating the vaccine during administration would reduce the risk of myocarditis? I don't have a…

One mouse study found that not aspirating when injecting the vaccine did increase the risk of myocarditis.

https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciab707

That research hasn't been reproduced in humans but it's worth further study. Currently the CDC recommends against aspiration, primarily due to pain.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#260

Post by Daishiman »

RansomStark wrote: post #229
gwd wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what also causes myocarditis? COVID-19 [1]. So the choices were: 1. Don't pressure young people to get vaccinated. Nearly everyone who's unvaccinated eventually catches COVID-19. Some of them would have severe reactions and die; or spend time in a hospital, taking up space and delaying care for others, causing those other people to die. Nearly all of them would pass COVID-19 on to other people, many of whom…

That's not necessarily the case, if fact it might be the exact opposite. 1. Don't pressure young people to get the vaccine, some will end up in hospital, some will die. 2. Pressure young people to get the vaccine and 6 times as many of them end up in hospital from the vaccine, taking up more space, and putting more pressure on the system [0], some of them will die [1][2] [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/20…

No post body was provided.
Post reply on HN