Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

ntdca.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 1001 posts

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#251

Post by dahfizz »

eli wrote: post #217
_fat_santa wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

> numerous officials have said something along the lines of vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either" No they haven't. There's a pervasive anti-vax myth that Fauci "admitted" the vaccines don't work. Not true and didn't happen. The data are very clear that vaccines reduce your chances of getting infected (not just seriously ill or dying, but getting infected in the fir…

Your links do not mention the omicron variant. The CDC estimates that an unboostered vaccine (2 doses) is only 38% effective against omicron. Boosting brings the effectiveness up to 82%.[1]

So to be more precise - vaccines work against Omicron, but not as well as the original strains and only if you keep up with boosting every few months. Vaccines are less effective against omicron in general, and the effectiveness wains very quickly.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#252

Post by twofornone »

eli wrote: post #217
_fat_santa wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

> numerous officials have said something along the lines of vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either" No they haven't. There's a pervasive anti-vax myth that Fauci "admitted" the vaccines don't work. Not true and didn't happen. The data are very clear that vaccines reduce your chances of getting infected (not just seriously ill or dying, but getting infected in the fir…

I don't think you understand how many assumptions are baked into the current conclusions that vaccines and masks are effective. This relies on accurate reporting of vaccination status and accurate reporting of breakthrough cases. Meanwhile in the real world covid is spreading unabated, record case counts, regardless of vaccination rate or mask compliance.

Clearly something isn't adding up. Meanwhile the rosy estimates of safety and effectiveness have been repeatedly and consistently walked back. I think it's time to recognize that our institutions have had their analyses and recommendations tainted by strong and pervasive political and social biases, from the laypeople who have no incentive to report breakthrough cases, all the way up through the chain past academics and policymakers who have their careers riding on the validity of 2 years of covid research and policy that cannot be contradicted without trashing credibility. That's not to mention the career and social stigma associated with speaking out or publishing negatively against the vaccines.

It doesn't help that dozens of hours of testimony on behalf of researches and clinicians before congresspeople is simply being ignored[0]. Add media to the rabidly biased groups and you're getting closer to reconciling what is being published and communicated about the vaccines and virus with what is happening in the real world.

0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jMONZMuS2U&t=1s

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#253

Post by tharne »

hatware wrote: post #100
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. It's almost like there's a narrative here.

> Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on.

Source?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#254

Post by Izkata »

xadhominemx wrote: post #194
walterbell wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers can be further separated by "with Covid" and "from Covid" causality, as well as co-morbidities and expected lifetime. E.g. if someone was soon to die from illness A, but died 3 months earlier from complications induced by Covid, and the hospital received a financial payment for classifying this as Covid-related treatment, that should be broken out into a separate reporting category. Such deaths would no…

Excess mortality is higher than reported COVID deaths. Australia contained the virus in 2020 and saw negative excess mortality. Official COVID deaths understate the true toll.

Leading cause of death in the US, 2015-2020: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234 (see table a few paragraphs down)

Heart disease, unintentional injuries, Alzheimer disease, and diabetes all jumped more than the expected trend.

2021 numbers I don't think will be finalized for another month or so.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#255

Post by [deleted] »

hatware wrote: post #100
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. It's almost like there's a narrative here.

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#256

Post by webdood90 »

andrewclunn wrote: post #192
xadhominemx wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before COVID vaccines, Republicans on average trusted pharma way more than Democrats. In general, distrust in pharma is the effect, not the cause, of anti-vax sentiment. I don’t know what’s going on in your specific case. I suspect you are comparing the health risk of vax to not vax, instead of the risk of vax to COVID, which is the comparison you should be making since everyone is going to get omicron eventually, bu…

I already got Covid. If you spent a little less time assuming other people's positions (and their motivations), you might find the space to hear them instead.

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#257

Post by srcreigh »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50
walterbell wrote: post #38

The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by: 1. Covid-recovered 2. Vaccinated 3. Partly-vaccinated ( CDC reporting bundles #3 and #4. UK reports all 4 categories separately. #1 was already a high percentage in 2021 and is now higher due to Omicron. Edit: CDC estimated pre-Omicron #1 as 146 million people (as of Oct 2021), https://ww…

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too.

I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#258

Post by nobody9999 »

generalenvelope wrote: post #98
robrorcroptrer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could the global obesity epidemic not also be handled through mandates?

Obesity is a complicated disease that manifests through a variety of biological, behavioral, and environmental factors. These factors differ widely between individuals. I think there are mandates that could help make the disease less prevalent, but it is very much ingrained in our daily life, so I'm cynical as to the efficacy of such measures. It's very difficult to mandate behavioral (look at how many people don't e…

>Obesity is a complicated disease that manifests through a variety of biological, behavioral, and environmental factors.

Obesity is not a disease. It is a condition defined as a Body Mass Index (BMI) of >30[0].

Yes, there are a variety of factors that contribute to a BMI >30, but like "tobacco use disorder," it's emphatically not a disease. Some obesity may be related to actual diseases, but obesity in itself isn't a disease.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#259

Post by Jimmc414 »

soperj wrote: post #238
someguy5344523 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it looks like the vaccines don't stop the spread of covid: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

They stop the hospitals from filling up though.

Tobacco kills 8 million of its users, annually. Why is their presence in ICU beds not a topic of concern?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#260

Post by dahfizz »

shin_lao wrote: post #226
Izkata wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around a month ago Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said in an interview (paraphrased) "cloth masks are ineffective against the transmissibility of omicron". (Edit: wrong person, here's video of what I'm remembering: https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/status/14733056927149... ) (Anyway that was just intended as context for below, what I think may have been the starting point for a larger shift) Thing is, t…

Also N95 have a limited effectiveness over time (e.g. you need to change it regularly).

This typically applies to surgical masks as well. The reason is that the fibers of the mask have an electrostatic charge. This charge helps the mask filter particles much better, but the charge will wane over time.
Post reply on HN