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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#251

Post by toolz »

toyg wrote: post #233
iamacyborg wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nice catchy slogan that falls apart at the tiniest scrutiny.

Worse, it's a political agenda camouflaged as philosophical stance.

That's not my impression, my impression is that it's laziness channeled into virtue signaling to show all the other lazy people out there that if they are fed up with having to struggle for results then instead they can redefine the struggle as evil and their ideal circumstance of doing nothing and being praised for it may become a reality.

Of course this mindset can only ever attract other lazy people and even then only from a distance. Even lazy people desire relationships with people putting in the effort.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#253

Post by agumonkey »

kashyapc wrote: post #192

The inimitable Hans Rosling[1] used to call himself a "possibilist": People often call me an optimist, because I show them the enormous progress they didn't know about. That makes me angry. I'm not an optimist. That makes me sound naive. I'm a very serious “possibilist”. That's something I made up. It means someone who neither hopes without reason, nor fears without reason, someone who constantly resists the overdram…

Interesting term, so simple yet effective.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#254

Post by necovek »

oblio wrote: post #232
necovek wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had a premature baby, please don't: progress is rarely "linear". I agree that does not make the example inapplicable, it just makes it insensitive. There are so many better examples to choose from that don't strike a personal nerve (at least, personal to this extent) with any of the audience. Or if your audience hasn't had this experience, it's a moot example that they can't really relate to.

There's two things to unpack here. First, the major one. Yes, it is an insensitive example so a better one should be one. Secondly, regarding your comment regarding progress, human progress is also not linear. It's not even constantly and universally pointing in the right direction (there are frequent regressions, some bigger than others), let alone advancing at a constant speed.

I said as much: it's not inapplicable, just insensitive.

TL;DR: I am letting you know how this example made me feel. Take it any way you want.

It's so much easier for me to process any realist take on something that may have concerned my own health or my parents' health (we've all had serious health conditions), but shouts of the crowd "hey, we are empathizing" when it comes to premature babies makes me gulp (and my kid is doing great: what about those whose isn't?). Why don't we use kids with serious, life threatening conditions as examples too? Because those examples are too emotionally taxing.

It exactly feels like coming from someone who has not had a premature baby (or had a low risk one, as >80% of them are: babies coming out at 36 or even 33 weeks of gestation have a very low risk of any developmental issues and have high chances of survival, yet are still called "premature" — their parents are unlikely to have heard phrases like "it's so-and-so, you probably understand what this means" or "may become blind in a matter of days/hours", even though they've experienced a lot of psychological stress too).

If the goal is to trigger an emotional response, I think this is the wrong one. If the goal is to trigger a rational response, then anybody with a first-hand experience is going to have a hard time.

I am simply calling it out as I see it: find a better example, please.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#255

Post by oblio »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #235
oblio wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually an extreme case of privilege. The pirates were probably some very poor commoners who turned to a life of crime, while he was a member of one of the most powerful political families in Ancient Rome. His upbringing was nothing like that of what were probably children the dirt poor farmers. He was lucky that no one snapped (I imagine some did but the thought of such a huge amount of money meant that everyo…

"Do you know who I am?" there's no woke reading where Julius Caesar can be rehabiliated for modern sensibilities. It's still unbelievably badass. I don't think you can retcon modern thinking on it, he was the actual thing and that was beautiful and terrible.

It is very bold, but my point is that commoners were naturally very afraid of nobles. On top of that, in this particular case they knew the financial value of capturing a noble, let alone the fact that this particular noble promised them even more money.

As another commoner you'd probably get gutted like a fish if you'd try the same thing.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#256

Post by jacknews »

tekromancr wrote: post #107
jacknews wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes maybe my definition is wrong, I consider myself slightly cynical (I lived to see the excitement of cyberspace turn into Facebook after all), but perhaps I mean skeptical, although to me what you're talking about is more nihilism. There are some things that really don't change, and I guess that can be a source of cynicism. The poor will always be among you, lying politicians, the greedy rich, etc. But I'd argue th…

That is the epitome of fixed-mindset. We live in a world on near limitless abundance. We already live in a potential post-scarcity world. The only reason there are poor among us IS the greedy rich; but the greedy rich isn't some faceless, abstract, unkillable cosmic god. They have names and addresses; what they have can be taken from them as has happened many many times throughout history. Things can change, sometime…

Yes, the rich can be stripped. But they'll be replaced by another elite. I think human nature will tend towards some kind of hierarchy.

The opportunity is to make the currency of that hierarchy something far above basic needs, IMHO. Perhaps this could be a genuine use-case for cryptocurrencies, so that the ultra wealthy can 'keep score' in maths, rather than mega-yachts, private jets, dark satanic mills, etc.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#257

Post by headsoup »

Hmm, this article starts with building its own straw-man cynic to argue against for the rest of it.

I think it is naive to define a cynic as a character whole (which sounds a lot like nihilism instead). People can be immensely cynical and yet positive, cynical but with a view to do something about it, cynical and miserable. It is not an absolute.

A lot of the comments here seem to be attempting to find nice quotes that can then be used for labelling outlooks on life to be attributed to.

Complaining is cathartic! I'm off to listen to some Bobby McFerrin while I yell at clouds :)

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#259

Post by prox »

nefitty wrote: post #227
oblio wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great quote. I'm probably going to be using that example in a lot of debates :-) Thank you!

To overextend the metaphor, I try to see all the little systems of the world as incubator babies. Some of them are worsening, we may lose some, some are near perfect health... We can celebrate the improvements while simultaneously mourning the losses. Sometimes you'll hear that a person is "complicated". Our emotional world can be layers of many tones, textures, timbres. I think that when we invite the emotional corr…

What are your thoughts on engaging in social media (say this comment thread), it is so easy to forget there is (probably!) a living and breathing person on the other end. I made friends in gaming who have different worldviews and sometimes debates came up (say covid and vaccins) and the debates really changed attitudes and understanding. It has been such a difference than many debates here or on worse on reddit, or anywhere else.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#260

Post by xyzzy123 »

oblio wrote: post #255
xyzzy123 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you know who I am?" there's no woke reading where Julius Caesar can be rehabiliated for modern sensibilities. It's still unbelievably badass. I don't think you can retcon modern thinking on it, he was the actual thing and that was beautiful and terrible.

It is very bold, but my point is that commoners were naturally very afraid of nobles. On top of that, in this particular case they knew the financial value of capturing a noble, let alone the fact that this particular noble promised them even more money. As another commoner you'd probably get gutted like a fish if you'd try the same thing.

It's true but being noble was its own thing with its own particular risks and costs. If you were to choose undeserving nobles across history IMHO J C would be among the worst sells.
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