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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#251

Post by la6471 »

BobbyJo wrote: post #183
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

>My personal believe is presently, for lack of data that I can digest, that the far right is probably focused around emotions Both sides have appeals to emotion and appeals to logic in their platform. For instance, what basis is there for universal healthcare other than 'we should help each other'? You can't make the argument that it would 'save the government money' to the right, because, in their opinion, the gover…

Yes they can vote to leave the state but they should also not get any of the tax dollars from the more densely populated counties that stay behind. Thank you , sayonara!

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#252

Post by catgary »

not2b wrote: post #220

The US constitution requires that, for this to happen, Congress, the Oregon legislature, and the Idaho legislature must all agree. There's no provision that it is a matter that local country residents get to decide.

Would Oregon necessarily be against this? This seems like a great way to (a) get rid of nut jobs from the state legislature, and (b) get rid of a bunch of counties that sinkholes (financially speaking).

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#253

Post by j_walter »

tacitusarc wrote: post #235
ABeeSea wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republican Reagan signed EMTALA which makes it so hospitals can’t refuse service in emergencies due to ability to pay. It stopped people from dying in the street. They did not fund this new mandate and so we currently pay for this through higher insurance premiums and county/municipal emergency service budgets. Universal healthcare would be a more efficient way to pay for an already existing benefit. When uninsured c…

I live in a predominantly right-leaning area and know a lot of people who are against universal healthcare. I've talked with a lot of them about it, and every single person would be in favor of it if there was a magical guarantee the money would actually be spent properly and not corruptly misallocated. But the track record is so poor, and there is such little transparency, that they have no trust whatsoever. I can h…

This is exactly right. Pretty much anytime the government takes anything over or has a new program...it's a shit show from the beginning. See "Cover Oregon" for a waste of a few hundred million dollars...see "Pandemic Unemployment Fraud" for what is probably a hundred billion...see "PPP program" for what is continuously being found as having tons of fraud...see "Oregon Unemployment still programmed in COBOL and can't adjust the waiting period" for non-financial incompetence. If any area in government could run efficiently and we saw evidence of that...it would be a lot easier to convince everyone that things like universal healthcare would be a good idea.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#254

Post by belorn »

mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

> Of particular interest would be trying to categorize areas with positive or negative contributions to a person's or region's productivity

Having a map which highlight regions which has a negative balance sheet in terms of taxes vs government costs would mostly just be a map of segregation of class, which in turn would be a map showing segregation of different demographics. Illustrating which demographics are costing the government more than they pay in taxes is not something the left in my country are very happy to do, and I doubt it is that much different in the USA.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#255

Post by jessaustin »

LatteLazy wrote: post #212

Idaho votes republican right? And Oregon is a swing state? So moving 5 republican counties from the later to the former would be a good move for anyone opposed to Trump 2024... As an old style Liberal, it's nice to be able to have my cake and eat it, though I'm not actually American so...

The last Republican who won Oregon was Ronald Reagan. Although, to your point, LBJ was the last Democrat who won Idaho.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#256

Post by chx »

rsj_hn wrote: post #234
teclordphrack2 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a lot on the left is driven by data.

Banning plastic straws, asserting that men should compete against women in sports if they identify as women, and eliminating SAT scores doesn't seem like a science-driven approach, but more of a faith-based science-denialism.

There's a lot to unpack in your short utterance I just would like to comment on eliminating SAT scores.

> Noninstructional factors explain most of the variance among test scores when schools or districts are compared. A study of math results on the 1992 National Assessment of Educational Progress found that the combination of four such variables (number of parents living at home, parents' educational background, type of community, and poverty rate) accounted for a whopping 89 percent of the differences in state scores

from https://alfiekohn.org/teaching/pdf/Standardized%20Testing%20... if you really want I can dig up the old study.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#257

Post by joshka »

buzzert wrote: post #158
joshka wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can’t these programs exist while also having drugs be illegal? How would you make that work? Consider if drugs are illegal, then getting medical help / detox requires admission of guilt. This seems like a fifth amendment problem.

Why should you have to admit anything to get treatment? Is that some kind of medical requirement I’m unaware of?

I'm talking just human nature here. If something is forbidden , illegal, subjectively immoral, etc. then it's difficult to both admit and seek help with that thing. I don't have any data to hand to back my assertion that criminalization negatively affects treatment, however if such data exists, then it would be less surprising (to me) than the inverse (criminalization makes it easier to get treatment).

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#258

Post by la6471 »

iwasakabukiman wrote: post #182

This article title is grossly misleading. As far as I can tell from the article, no actual votes have happened. The group behind this is just pushing for counties to support them. These types of groups pop up all the time, make hay and then disappear.

Yes they can vote to leave the state but they should also not get any of the tax dollars from the more densely populated counties that stay behind. Thank you , Sayonara!

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#259

Post by dawnerd »

pcan77 wrote: post #4

Why not just move to Idaho then? Or some other red state?

I've talked to a lot of these people in passing and they honestly believe Oregon is a red state but is being cheated by Portland. They always point to land area thats red as proof.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#260

Post by nscalf »

lostmsu wrote: post #230
yesBoot wrote: post #146

What’s great is all these exceptional, gritty people will put the work and expectations on everyone instead of simply moving to Idaho themselves.

What if they are the majority?

Then they would probably be winning elections on the state level instead of trying to redefine what the state is.
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