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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#141

Post by DeRock »

smaryjerry wrote: post #109
ddingus wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally! I am familiar. Have friends and family in the region. I come to visit them as the tree hugging, bleeding heart, gun toting lefty from lefty central. Always good laughs. Fortunately we have a good culture on politics. No worries. Not everyone does, and I wish it were more true. Can get along just about anywhere really. Wonder if the Ford electric F150 will see rapid adoption in that region? Ford got almost al…

Ford’s biggest problem with the F150 was using Biden as its salesperson. Someone at Ford didn’t evaluate their consumer demographics properly.

Their biggest customer may end up being the US government (eg. for work fleets). So maybe it was a strategic move? Time will tell.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#142

Post by _8t4p »

thepasswordis wrote: post #128
URSpider94 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see the data, but from the data I have seen, the data conflict with the popular (populist) narrative. A lot of people in America seem to believe that the hardworking "real Americans" in the middle of the country are subsidizing the poorly-run coastal liberal enclaves. In reality, the money almost always flows in the other direction; taxpayers in cities are subsidizing the rural-dwellers. This has noth…

Those people in the middle of the country believe that if they all quit their jobs and demanded a government-given wage, that the country would starve to death. If all of the people at facebook, google, and twitter quit their jobs, however, all that would really happen would be that the country would get a bit more peaceful. You're talking about how much is taken in taxes. These people are talking about how much is g…

Because thats the divide? Silicon Valley vs family farms. Give me a break...

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#143

Post by oogabooga123 »

mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

What a patronizing take. No wonder they want to leave, if they’re governed by people with your attitude.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#144

Post by schaefer »

GongOfFour wrote: post #88
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

Here is the website for one of the groups pushing for this: https://www.greateridaho.org/ Taxes are just one part of this. They list these other issues of concern: > 1. American Values: Oregon will continue to violate more and more American values and American freedoms because normal rural Americans are outnumbered in Oregon. Not in Idaho. Addicts will be attracted to Oregon from all over the world by the 2020 drug d…

Can I just say, for me the use of the term "illegals" under the section of Law and Order comes across as a dehumanizing slur.

how unfortunate.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#145

Post by joshka »

buzzert wrote: post #138
ncallaway wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If drugs have been criminalized for decades, and that has led to overdoses being at an all time high, isn’t that just a pretty strong point of evidence that criminalizing drugs isn’t an effective means to prevent overdoses? We tried that strategy for many decades. It has failed as a strategy for decades. I don’t think that’s necessarily evidence that decriminalization will work, but it seems like...maybe we should at…

“Try something else”, as in the complete polar opposite of what we were trying before? I cannot rationalize such a decision.

What would you do instead?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#147

Post by fyijbxmuyidudm »

joshka wrote: post #126
GongOfFour wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the website for one of the groups pushing for this: https://www.greateridaho.org/ Taxes are just one part of this. They list these other issues of concern: > 1. American Values: Oregon will continue to violate more and more American values and American freedoms because normal rural Americans are outnumbered in Oregon. Not in Idaho. Addicts will be attracted to Oregon from all over the world by the 2020 drug d…

>American Values ... normal rural Americans are outnumbered in Oregon What sort of logic supports that American values are those held by a minority of Americans. What possible values suggest they are the normal ones? > 3. Low Tax The counties involved have median household incomes of 30-35K, making their tax burden $600-1100 total, a far cry from the average quoted, which is skewed right strongly by outliers (1%), wh…

> What sort of logic supports that American values are those held by a minority of Americans. What possible values suggest they are the normal ones?

The majority of the world has never shared American values. American values have always been divorced from popularity. American values does not mean something that corresponds to the values held by people that live in America, necessarily, either. And perhaps quite simply, the political majority in Portland does not, in any capacity, share a moral system with the people of rural Oregon. Furthermore, Portlander's would not identify their value system as American, nor would they associate something called "American" with something good. The people of rural Oregon would.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#148

Post by joshka »

buzzert wrote: post #136
yesBoot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war on drugs put people in prison for emotional belief those people were morally inferior. It rightly so should be abolished. To be replaced with trained medical help, detox programs, and a conversation about morality not tethered to superstition, or black and white judgments. But the fundies, acting out of emotion, prefer boxes. It’s all emotion since humans are motivated by such. It’s the outcome that should be…

> To be replaced with trained medical help, detox programs, and a conversation about morality not tethered to superstition, or black and white judgments Why can’t these programs exist while also having drugs be illegal? Also it doesn’t help your position by using childish words like “fundies”, FYI. Keep that on Reddit please.

> Why can’t these programs exist while also having drugs be illegal?

How would you make that work? Consider if drugs are illegal, then getting medical help / detox requires admission of guilt. This seems like a fifth amendment problem.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#149

Post by alpaca128 »

buzzert wrote: post #113
joshka wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have rational data that would present this viewpoint as otherwise? How about helping us liberals understand the conservative viewpoint better if you have insight on this. Edit: please don't downvote based on disagreement - write something instead. This is a reasonable question asking to further understand the conservative viewpoint. Case in point, I'm upvoting buzzert's comments because they present a contrary…

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

So the current system with drugs being illegal leads to an all time high of overdoses, but you suggest a switch to a different approach is timed badly? Yes, I do think going the opposite route of the one causing record levels of overdoses is a good start.

I have a hard time following your line of thought.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#150

Post by [deleted] »

yesBoot wrote: post #139
listless wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another _could_ be letting people in Portland tear the city apart with impunity.

For most folks in Portland, pandemic aside, it’s been life as usual. I have yet to encounter lefties in my SE hood terrorizing anyone. Plenty of Trump caravans last year, waking us up, shooting guns. All from outside the city. Sure violence is up but it’s up all over. A side effect of a nation coddling old wealth, leaving the masses to rot.

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