Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho' • Hacker News Board

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#131

Post by ncallaway » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

buzzert wrote: post #113

joshka wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have rational data that would present this viewpoint as otherwise? How about helping us liberals understand the conservative viewpoint better if you have insight on this. Edit: please don't downvote based on disagreement - write something instead. This is a reasonable question asking to further understand the conservative viewpoint. Case in point, I'm upvoting buzzert's comments because they present a contrary…

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

If drugs have been criminalized for decades, and that has led to overdoses being at an all time high, isn’t that just a pretty strong point of evidence that criminalizing drugs isn’t an effective means to prevent overdoses?

We tried that strategy for many decades. It has failed as a strategy for decades. I don’t think that’s necessarily evidence that decriminalization will work, but it seems like...maybe we should at least try something else?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#132

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #39

dumbfoundded wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of democracy is to vote to change things you don't like about your government. I don't agree with them but I respect their right to vote on it. I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection.

Yeah, but it's not like this vote is going to accomplish anything. It's just symbolic. If they really want to live under a more conservative government, well, there's one right there to the east.

[deleted]

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#133

Post by snypher » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

buzzert wrote: post #113

joshka wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have rational data that would present this viewpoint as otherwise? How about helping us liberals understand the conservative viewpoint better if you have insight on this. Edit: please don't downvote based on disagreement - write something instead. This is a reasonable question asking to further understand the conservative viewpoint. Case in point, I'm upvoting buzzert's comments because they present a contrary…

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

This is why we can't have a rational conversation; your very first point was to link two statistics in a misleading way. You immediately imply that enforcement of drug laws is connected to the number of overdoses. However anyone can see that both overdose and enforcement have increased over time.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#134

Post by joshka » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

buzzert wrote: post #113

joshka wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have rational data that would present this viewpoint as otherwise? How about helping us liberals understand the conservative viewpoint better if you have insight on this. Edit: please don't downvote based on disagreement - write something instead. This is a reasonable question asking to further understand the conservative viewpoint. Case in point, I'm upvoting buzzert's comments because they present a contrary…

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

The idea that treating drug problems with criminal punishment rather than medical care is effective for solving the drug overdose problem without data to back that viewpoint sounds more emotionally driven than the converse view. I'd anticipate that we would both agree that the former has provably not worked, it's time to give the latter a chance.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#135

Post by petermcneeley » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #5

As an Oregonian not living in one of those sparsely-populated counties that voted for secession, I wonder why the folks who want to be part of Idaho don't just vote with their feet and move there? There's no border wall keeping them in Oregon. These votes are just symbolic and won't get them to their Idaho paradise near as quickly as a U-Haul could.

There is more than just 'exit' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#136

Post by buzzert » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

yesBoot wrote: post #122

buzzert wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

The war on drugs put people in prison for emotional belief those people were morally inferior. It rightly so should be abolished. To be replaced with trained medical help, detox programs, and a conversation about morality not tethered to superstition, or black and white judgments. But the fundies, acting out of emotion, prefer boxes. It’s all emotion since humans are motivated by such. It’s the outcome that should be…

> To be replaced with trained medical help, detox programs, and a conversation about morality not tethered to superstition, or black and white judgments

Why can’t these programs exist while also having drugs be illegal?

Also it doesn’t help your position by using childish words like “fundies”, FYI. Keep that on Reddit please.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#137

Post by ddingus » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

smaryjerry wrote: post #109

ddingus wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally! I am familiar. Have friends and family in the region. I come to visit them as the tree hugging, bleeding heart, gun toting lefty from lefty central. Always good laughs. Fortunately we have a good culture on politics. No worries. Not everyone does, and I wish it were more true. Can get along just about anywhere really. Wonder if the Ford electric F150 will see rapid adoption in that region? Ford got almost al…

Ford’s biggest problem with the F150 was using Biden as its salesperson. Someone at Ford didn’t evaluate their consumer demographics properly.

Yeah, that may not have been the best move. But then again, the F-150 is like a really solid brand. And it's a really great product. They will power through.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#138

Post by buzzert » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #131

buzzert wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

If drugs have been criminalized for decades, and that has led to overdoses being at an all time high, isn’t that just a pretty strong point of evidence that criminalizing drugs isn’t an effective means to prevent overdoses? We tried that strategy for many decades. It has failed as a strategy for decades. I don’t think that’s necessarily evidence that decriminalization will work, but it seems like...maybe we should at…

“Try something else”, as in the complete polar opposite of what we were trying before? I cannot rationalize such a decision.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#139

Post by yesBoot » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #121

buzzert wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One particular example might be Oregon’s decision to decriminalize all drugs[0] during a time when overdoses are at an all time high[1] and increasing over 40% in just the last year. You might say the political party who calls the war on drugs “cruel and inhumane” is acting on emotion rather than reason in spite of all the statistics. [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/press-release/2021/02/drug-decriminal... [1]: https://w…

Another _could_ be letting people in Portland tear the city apart with impunity.

For most folks in Portland, pandemic aside, it’s been life as usual.

I have yet to encounter lefties in my SE hood terrorizing anyone.

Plenty of Trump caravans last year, waking us up, shooting guns.

All from outside the city.

Sure violence is up but it’s up all over. A side effect of a nation coddling old wealth, leaving the masses to rot.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#140

Post by hackyhacky » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #128

URSpider94 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see the data, but from the data I have seen, the data conflict with the popular (populist) narrative. A lot of people in America seem to believe that the hardworking "real Americans" in the middle of the country are subsidizing the poorly-run coastal liberal enclaves. In reality, the money almost always flows in the other direction; taxpayers in cities are subsidizing the rural-dwellers. This has noth…

Those people in the middle of the country believe that if they all quit their jobs and demanded a government-given wage, that the country would starve to death. If all of the people at facebook, google, and twitter quit their jobs, however, all that would really happen would be that the country would get a bit more peaceful. You're talking about how much is taken in taxes. These people are talking about how much is g…

Sounds like someone's been watching a bit too much Fox Propaganda.

Farms are already subsidized by the government. Imports are already subject to tariffs precisely to protect farmers. Who do you think pays for those subsidies, and who pays for the tariffs? Yeah, the "coastal elites" that you've been trained to hate.

In farmers stopped benefiting from the largess of the coast, _they_ would starve to death, and everyone else would have cheaper food.