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Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

theregister.com

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Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#251

Post by ggggtez »

I glanced through it, and can pretty much guarantee there is no case here.

I'm no lawyer and have no special knowledge, but this is for "new account" and represents log files, according to the suit. I can almost guarantee Google will show the data is some kind of anti-fraud/spam analysis (thus why it doesn't wait for you to get on wifi).

This it's not an apples to apples comparison (they are only guessing the logs are for ads, but the suit doesn't appear to actually show evidence that the data is advertising related). Similarly, they extrapolate that it will continue to log that much data forever, but it may be related to the fact they are new accounts, and data usage may drop off after the account gets some history behind it.

But hey, I'll be happy to take a class action payment, I just don't see this actually going anywhere.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#252

Post by abawany »

npteljes wrote: post #224
dimator wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying this, and let me tell you, the user experience is absolutely terrible. The Play store and what it gives you is incredibly hard to live without, unless you really just want to use your phone for texting, browsing, and calling. If you're a minimalist, then great. If you're accustomed to what a smartphone can do, not so great. The alternative app stores are full of unimpressive, small scale apps. Dozens…

Can I ask what you use Sheets for? For anything a little more serious I always use my desktop, as even typing on my phone is very frustrating.

For me, it is handy for tracking expenses in various categories (tabs in a given spreadsheet) and it's general availability on my devices so the information is always available to me.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#253

Post by ggggtez »

ignoramous wrote: post #241
as-j wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before everyone grabs their pitch forks....as someone who does telemetry tracking devices, 350megs/mo is pretty easy to do and send nearly 0 data, if you do it wrong....let me explain: TLS connection setup is ~10k so if do an 1 HTTPS call/telemetry that's 48 calls home/hour. (11,600/10k = 1,160 https connections/day. There's 1440 minutes/day) Of basically calling home every minute and sending not much. Ok calling hom…

That makes me wonder if its Google Play Services (mandatorily preloaded into every Android device) that connects frequently / keeps a connection idle to support things like Push Notifications?

Also, Google Play Services isn't Google Play. "Services" actually encompasses nearly every single app on the device, since it's more or less a library rather than an app.

In which case the suit would incorrectly be blaming the store, instead of the real app that is sending the data.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#254

Post by ggggtez »

Retric wrote: post #76
izacus wrote: post #15

> Under active use, Android devices transfer about 11.6MB of data to Google servers daily, or 350MB per month, it's claimed, which is about half the amount transferred by an iPhone. Interesting, so 350MB of data per month is abuse, iPhones 175MB per month isn't. I guess Google now has to half their data use for it to be at parity with Apple and we're all fine?

That’s not saying 175MB per month is ok, that could also be problematic. It’s saying 350MB per month is clearly excessive as demonstrated by a company using half that.

Could you imagine a class action lawsuit for not removing null characters at the end of strings in order to save bandwidth?

A 2x multiplier barely reaches the level of noteworthy. I look forward to my $12 class action payout, but let's be honest, this isn't going anywhere, and would almost certainly be a bad precedent. Legally requiring premature optimization would be the real world result of a ruling in favor of the plaintiffs. I can't imagine a result that would actually inhibit Google from continuing to advertise to you.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#256

Post by dogma1138 »

cle wrote: post #248
dogma1138 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point what’s the difference between this and Android, unlock your bootloader, download AOSP and hack away...

For me a big difference would be not sending my data to Google. Even Lineage OS still sends a bunch of data to Google all the time. If you’re not careful it sends location data, DNS queries, etc. I want a mobile OS that gives me complete control over my personal data.

AOSP.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#257

Post by dogma1138 »

Silhouette wrote: post #163
dogma1138 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point what’s the difference between this and Android, unlock your bootloader, download AOSP and hack away...

At that point what’s the difference between this and Android How many major phones can you buy with AOSP installed by default today? How much development gets done on AOSP that isn't at least heavily influenced by the direction Google takes? Does AOSP provide comprehensive privacy and security options for users but still freely connect with other devices and services using open standards? Obviously if you're going to…

But that’s just the issue we already have most of this freedom available yet hardly anyone takes advantage of it.

Heck how many people do you think install SailFish on their phones? You can buy pretty decent Android phones with AOSP and even SailFishOS builds yet people aren’t taking advantage of that in any particular manner.

If almost no one uses it, even amongst those who claim they want that freedom why will build a business model around it?

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#258

Post by gjm11 »

lenkite wrote: post #105
yakireev wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? It's the opposite of this, in Windows 10 telemetry can not be disabled at all. All you get is a choice between "Basic" / "Enhanced" / "Full (recommended)" modes.

Those are the dumbed down options for plain users. Power users just disable the Telemetry service. Start > Run > services.msc. Right-click on "Collected User Experiences and Telemetry". Stop the service and change startup-type to Disabled. Or you can use windows group policy editor. (which every IT department uses) Start > Run > gpedit.msc Computer Configuration> Administrative Templates> Windows Components> Data col…

I think Group Policy "Allow Telemetry = Disabled" doesn't do what you think it does. Here's the description given in the group policy editor:

"By configuring this setting in Windows 10, end users will not be able to opt into a higher level of telemetry collection than you have set for your organization." (Plus some clarification of how broadly this applies.)

That doesn't disable telemetry. It just stops individuals enabling more telemetry than you already had enabled.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#259

Post by _rdvw »

andysch wrote: post #178
meowfly wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently using LineageOS and I'm not going to use it in the future. The issue I have is that unlocking my phone creates a security trade off that doesn't seem better than the privacy gains. I'm more afraid of losing my phone and someone replaces the bootloader than I am of telemetry. I really have enjoyed the LineageOS and it's been great to have a phone that isn't as dumb as a flip phone but doesn't have all th…

Well what's wrong with a bootloader unlocked if your device is encrypted?

Android has two ways of encryption. FBE = File Based Encryption, newer. FDE = Full Disk Encryption, older.

FBE is only secure when the system partitions have dm-verity enforced and verity is only enforced when the bootloader is locked.

FDE is a bit more resilient with an unlocked bootloader since there is less data left unencrypted.

However in either scenario without a locked bootloader and verity it is trivial for an attacker to insert malicious code that can then run once your device is unlocked and send off your files.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#260

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mappu wrote: post #219
mdpm wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to execute on this approach, as I'm very interested in checking out of the tracking-by-default ecosystems. We're using some Xiaomi devices we purchased, and I'm currently seething. I can't root without 'unlocking', which is a process that requires me to activate a Mi Account, which then requires my email and a SIM (?!), and 'find my device' (location) to even allow installation of apps via USB. To un…

There was a massive wave of phones being sold with unlocked bootloaders with preinstalled malware. How do you stop this? Unscrupulous retailers would buy thousands of your latest phone, root it and sell it for $1 less than MSRP, and make much more than that from injecting extra ads and stealing data. Not to mention, all the bad press "you" get for "shipping a phone with ads in it". Mere tamper-evidence - having a "bo…

How about let adults wreck the phone they bought if they 'want' to. Bootloader unlock in a 'hidden' power-on menu is sufficient. If you really want to baby users just have this set a flag that requires a click box to be ticked on next boot in order to actually unlock it (eg "you selected to unlock your bootloader in the power-on menu; unlocking your bootloader may lead to you destroying your phone, do you want to continue?" "are you sure?" "pinky promise?").

The "we're protecting people from themselves" argument seems spurious.

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