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Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

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Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#151

Post by nitrogen »

bashinator wrote: post #130
Silhouette wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually I'm a sceptic about Linux taking over the world, but this is actually the one situation where I could believe substantial progress might be made. If someone developed a slick UI for the basic phone functionality and a genuinely open Linux-based platform, provided compatibility with the major APIs needed to write Android apps so portability was easy, and maybe even funded the whole thing using an app store tha…

Didn’t Canonical try to do something like this?

It sounds a lot like Nokia's Maemo, which was doomed by a lack of investment, subsequent renaming to ugly-sounding names, and bouncing back and forth between orgs after Microsoft's agent provocateur sabotaged Nokia's phone division.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#152

Post by myko »

Retric wrote: post #76
izacus wrote: post #15

> Under active use, Android devices transfer about 11.6MB of data to Google servers daily, or 350MB per month, it's claimed, which is about half the amount transferred by an iPhone. Interesting, so 350MB of data per month is abuse, iPhones 175MB per month isn't. I guess Google now has to half their data use for it to be at parity with Apple and we're all fine?

That’s not saying 175MB per month is ok, that could also be problematic. It’s saying 350MB per month is clearly excessive as demonstrated by a company using half that.

As pointed out by others, if the quote is correct then Apple is using 700MB not 175MB

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#153

Post by jsjohnst »

peteradio wrote: post #144
jsjohnst wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you actually forced a customer to read the T&C’s somehow (rather than just annoying them with a forced delay), do you think the average consumer would understand what it means and what trade offs they are making? The “solution” isn’t forced legaleze on customers, it’s more “do what’s in the customer’s best interest” not “do whatever you can legally get away with to make the most money off them”.

No not really, but if there is a 1 hr delay because of onerous terms and conditions then perhaps a person would think twice about what they are getting in to. Or if there was a 5 minute delay to read a single paragraph perhaps people may actually read it.

> 1 hr delay

> 5 minute delay

I honestly feel that’s even more user hostile than the “onerous terms” in the first place.

I stand behind my point, if one has such “onerous terms” that something is warranted like you suggested, then the company failed and the app/service shouldn’t exist.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#154

Post by mdpm »

smt88 wrote: post #142
luord wrote: post #93

Between this and Jeffrey Paul's article shared yesterday about Big Sur and Apple Silicon[1], it's becoming increasingly tempting to throw my phone away and keep using only Linux with no applications primarily developed by these giants (i.e. no Chromium, etc). Supporting initiatives like the Librem phone is also moving up in my list of priorities, once I get enough money to spare at least. [1]: https://news.ycombinato…

What about LineageOS with a non-Google app store?

I've been trying to execute on this approach, as I'm very interested in checking out of the tracking-by-default ecosystems.

We're using some Xiaomi devices we purchased, and I'm currently seething. I can't root without 'unlocking', which is a process that requires me to activate a Mi Account, which then requires my email and a SIM (?!), and 'find my device' (location) to even allow installation of apps via USB. To unlock the computers I bought, so I can use the root account, to install an alternate.

Seems the prison walls are just set far enough away that we don't notice.

tl;dr, in order to get some privacy, I'm being asked to associate my IMEI, my IMSI, my email, and my location.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#155

Post by dogma1138 »

nitrogen wrote: post #149
dogma1138 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux high end phones will never be a reality, at least not what people here would consider Linux at best you’ll get is Android or Android like OS. Other than that you’ll get low volume low end devices at high end or higher prices due to lack of economy of scale. What most consumers actually want and I’ll put in that list also many many people that say they want a “Linux Phone” but in reality will go back to their iP…

What I want is a Maemo-based phone, with at least 20% marketshare and an Android compat layer so there is an ecosystem to support it, and the same camera as any other flagship level phone.

Well you can buy an Xperia 10 which whilst isn’t a super high end phone is still pretty decent and it runs SailFishOS... but then again you can probably count the number of people that did that on your fingers.

The issue is that whilst people want it there is never a good enough “reason” for that other than I want it, Maemo doesn’t give you more freedom than what AOSP does already at least not on the software level, you can degoogle and Android phone completely and do w/e you want with it. However people don’t seem to be doing that, and those who do often do that for academic purposes rather than to have their own personalized daily driver.

Even more so often the wishes of many people when it comes to customization doesn’t even require a rooted phone and a customized AOSP ROM, if you look at what people customize on their desktop which is often limited to their desktop environment and their workflow can be done on stock Android using alternative launchers and other apps.

Wanting for an Android competitor for the sake of having competition is fine, but it won’t look much different or it won’t be much of a competitor.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#156

Post by meowfly »

smt88 wrote: post #142
luord wrote: post #93

Between this and Jeffrey Paul's article shared yesterday about Big Sur and Apple Silicon[1], it's becoming increasingly tempting to throw my phone away and keep using only Linux with no applications primarily developed by these giants (i.e. no Chromium, etc). Supporting initiatives like the Librem phone is also moving up in my list of priorities, once I get enough money to spare at least. [1]: https://news.ycombinato…

What about LineageOS with a non-Google app store?

I'm currently using LineageOS and I'm not going to use it in the future. The issue I have is that unlocking my phone creates a security trade off that doesn't seem better than the privacy gains. I'm more afraid of losing my phone and someone replaces the bootloader than I am of telemetry.

I really have enjoyed the LineageOS and it's been great to have a phone that isn't as dumb as a flip phone but doesn't have all the bloatware and spying of other devices. The security around the bootloader is my biggest concern.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#157

Post by windsurfer »

dogma1138 wrote: post #103
deeter72 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally feel like, Apple is the best choice for the time being until actual daily usable Linux high end phones are a reality. Apple although has highly monopolistic practices are privacy oriented and are interested on just selling the physical device.

Linux high end phones will never be a reality, at least not what people here would consider Linux at best you’ll get is Android or Android like OS. Other than that you’ll get low volume low end devices at high end or higher prices due to lack of economy of scale. What most consumers actually want and I’ll put in that list also many many people that say they want a “Linux Phone” but in reality will go back to their iP…

I'm currently using an Fxtec Pro1 [1], which has a respectable Snapdragon 835 and 6GB of ram. It was released last year with an older processor but compare the Geekbench scores to the "High end" new Pixel 5 [2]. It unofficially supports quite a few distributions of Linux including Ubports Ubuntu Touch, Sailfish OS, and LineageOS. Official support for Ubuntu Touch and LineageOS is coming next month. It's a niche device for sure but it exists, is being manufactured, and is available for purchase.

[1]: https://fxtec.com/

[2]: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/4573446?baselin...

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#158

Post by dalbasal »

cstross wrote: post #52
dalbasal wrote: post #39

These bits of litigation are interesting, but my usual takeaway is a mild contempt for the whole thing. Whether it's something minor like this or a major antitrust cases (eg, the recent adwords EU case), what is and isn't legally actionable seems arbitrary from a non-legal perspective. Even legislation efforts like european "cookie laws" and such seem bumbling and naive. What's the legal fix to this, assuming google…

Whether or not google are "stealing" data allowance from customers, or acquiring this right voluntarily/contractually from customers is interesting in the abstract Specific example of harm: international roaming data fees are outrageous and even a small use of data can stack up. If I visit Canada using my UK mobile phone, I have to be sure to keep data roaming turned off because I get dinged for £6/Mb (about US $7.50…

Sure, the legal issue can be related to a real life ham. It is, I think, trivial on the whole. It's especially trivial of you consider the way these things are generally "righted."

(1) Google will clarify and establish their right to do whatever it is they're doing. Rarely will the result be google changing. (2) The do-whatever-then-ask-forgiveness mo may actually be reenforced. Google actually lost their EU antitrust case. It was about adwords, the google moneymaker. If Google had known in advance they would be found guilty and fined $1.4bn, they would have certainly done it anyway. (3) Whatever harm is acknowledged here will not be acknowledged as what it is, a part of the larger issue of google's abuse of power. Sipping data is the least of it.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#160

Post by Animats »

Do Android phones do that if you don't sign up for Google?

I didn't. When I first powered up a new Android phone, it asked for a Google login. But there's a "Later" option. I did that, and then removed the app that runs on first use, plus various other Google stuff. Installed F-Droid and Fennec. So I've never agreed to Google's terms.

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