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Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

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Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#251

Post by zhangjunphy »

coldpie wrote: post #86
Nick-Craver wrote: post #68

I just wanted to chime in from Stack Overflow here and let people know: we are aware of the issue. And we're NOT okay with it. We're trying to sort out how to kill the audio behavior now. It's not very straightforward to find where it's coming from, but we are working on it. We've also reached out to Google for their assistance in tracking it down. If anyone can offer advice, we'll more than happily take it. - Nick C…

Why are you allowing arbitrary javascript to be served to your users?

Revenues are important. The users will not notice unless something happens. And when something happens they forget fast.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#252

Post by Nick-Craver »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #154
Nick-Craver wrote: post #68

I just wanted to chime in from Stack Overflow here and let people know: we are aware of the issue. And we're NOT okay with it. We're trying to sort out how to kill the audio behavior now. It's not very straightforward to find where it's coming from, but we are working on it. We've also reached out to Google for their assistance in tracking it down. If anyone can offer advice, we'll more than happily take it. - Nick C…

Nick, how did things go so wrong from three years ago? e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20289841

I don’t know. I am so very much trying to find out and push to make things better.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#253

Post by jjeaff »

jimmaswell wrote: post #136
yifanl wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arbitrary code execution isnt really that trivial.

Arbitrary javascript execution is generally meaningless. Very rarely you'll get a zero-day or something, or maybe a site will use too much battery when focused.

Really? Malicious JavaScript can steal anything you can see and do anything you do. It can steal your passwords, bank account information, or transfer money out of your bank account. It just depends on what kind of page is serving up the arbitrary JavaScript.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#254

Post by manigandham »

ceejayoz wrote: post #225
manigandham wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't. They use their own adserver (bought from adzerk) to physically serve the ads, but they have always come through RTB connections to ad exchanges. There are private marketplaces and "automated guaranteed" deals to isolate their inventory in its representation and pricing from the rest of the market but the actual campaigns they get exposure to, and the creatives delivered, aren't special to them.

I've seen plenty of SO-specific ad campaigns being run on the site.

They run house-ads for their own jobs board and products, and they will have private marketplaces inside the exchanges, but those campaigns and creatives will still go through the standard adtech supply chain with all the JS-based layers added on.

https://www.stackoverflowbusiness.com/advertising

They do sell job postings and have sponsored tags so it's not all network ad revenue, but that's a minority of the income. Since they released their Q/A SaaS product now, maybe they’ll shift to selling that as the primary revenue stream.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#255

Post by gowld »

Benjammer wrote: post #245
gotodengo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the post: "The ad is attempting to use the Audio API as one of literally hundreds of pieces of data it is collecting about your browser in an attempt to "fingerprint" it... Your browser may be blocking this particular API, but it's not blocking most of the data." Seems like killing the audio is the metaphorical putting a finger in the dyke of serving arbitrary JavaScript to your users.

Maybe in the dyke holding back user outrage, but the dyke of serving arbitrary JavaScript was never built in the first place.

It's spelled "dike".

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#256

Post by scarface74 »

manigandham wrote: post #244
NikolaNovak wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Penny Arcade does bespoke ads. Rock Paper Shotgun used to do bespoke ads. I always found them million times more effective, and more trust-inspiring of both ad AND site, to me. Is SO smaller business? Possible... just surprised.

Those sites are far smaller than Stackoverflow. Bespoke campaigns don't always pay more, and usually mean less total revenue for the site if that's all they run.

Tell that to John Gruber over at DaringFireball - He makes $6500 a week just from posting one ad in the RSS feed. If he can gross over $300K a year on a niche Apple blog without a sales team, can you imagine what a sales team could do at SO?

He also sells three ad spots on his mostly weekly podcast for $6000 each. He’s a one man business grossing over 1 million a year without a sales team.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#257

Post by Nick-Craver »

geocar wrote: post #165
Nick-Craver wrote: post #68

I just wanted to chime in from Stack Overflow here and let people know: we are aware of the issue. And we're NOT okay with it. We're trying to sort out how to kill the audio behavior now. It's not very straightforward to find where it's coming from, but we are working on it. We've also reached out to Google for their assistance in tracking it down. If anyone can offer advice, we'll more than happily take it. - Nick C…

Hi Nick, If you're serious about this, I've built tools for the publisher side for stopping exactly this. My email address is in my profile.

I’m very interested and very serious. Email sent.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#258

Post by scarface74 »

manigandham wrote: post #240
scarface74 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that people act like Enterprise sales isn’t a thing.

Advertising isn't enterprise sales.

That’s just the point - why not? What different strategy would you use selling a SAAS app to a few whales than selling advertising to a few whales?

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#259

Post by mikeash »

manigandham wrote: post #250
mikeash wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it’s that simple. Don’t let ads run JS. Done. You’re saying that doing this would drastically decrease ad revenue. Which is what I’m saying too: it’s about money, not necessity. Would a site like SO be unable to survive without ads that run arbitrary JS? I don’t know. Even if the answer is that they must do this to survive, it’s still insane that content companies let randos inject arbitrary code into their…

Money is a necessity, that's how SO exists, and it wouldn't sustain its current size if it required JS-free network campaigns or tried to sell all ad space directly. Simple doesn't mean it's easy or realistic. Yes, adtech has major problems but they're being slowly worked on and won't change overnight. This applies to any other industry where you think can just walk in and solve everything if everyone just did X. Rea…

We know that advertising can work and make money without arbitrary JS. When there’s a clear existence proof, is it really wrong to say that a problem could be solved by not doing the problematic behavior?

Of course reality doesn’t work that way. Ad companies aren’t going to change, because they like money and don’t give a shit about users.

We’re stuck in a local minimum. It’s insane. It could be easily fixed if everyone just stopped doing the insane things. And they won’t stop.

Re: Why is Stack Overflow trying to start audio?

#260

Post by NikolaNovak »

manigandham wrote: post #244
NikolaNovak wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Penny Arcade does bespoke ads. Rock Paper Shotgun used to do bespoke ads. I always found them million times more effective, and more trust-inspiring of both ad AND site, to me. Is SO smaller business? Possible... just surprised.

Those sites are far smaller than Stackoverflow. Bespoke campaigns don't always pay more, and usually mean less total revenue for the site if that's all they run.

But... Shouldn't smaller sites find it *harder to gain attention of publishers and obtain bespoke ads?

In my mind major respected operation like SO should have an easier job. I interpreted OP to imply "nobody is big enough to run bespoke ads".

I guess I don't have metrics for it and my impression that's clearly a more reliable investment of one's advertising dollars is a mistaken one :-/

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