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Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

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Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#251

Post by lightedman »

look_lookatme wrote: post #74
tn135 wrote: post #66

As a fish loving Indian, I was totally surprised to see that in Capitalist America the choice of fish was absolutely pathetic. At American fish places you only get "shrimps" may be "large shrimps" and "small shrimps". Salmon, Bass, Red Snapper and just few handful of usual fish. My small village fish market offers at least 20 varieties of fish in India's coastal region. A proper fish market would offer at least 100.…

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

"For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood."

Pretty much every place I've lived on both coasts, you couldn't go the day without hearing about someone wanting a tuna burrito, or fish tacos, or shrimp stew (Frogmore stew specifically) or lobster or crab or flounderor more.

So maybe the inland Americans don't eat as much seafood, but rarely does a day go by here on the West Coast that I don't hear about or personally think about eating some seafood.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#252

Post by lacampbell »

purity_resigns wrote: post #249
lacampbell wrote: post #135

Amazing how they manage to stay so cheap while hiring people at at least minimum wage, with valid work contracts, while paying all relevant taxes and not having any ethnically discriminatory hiring practices. That's the real miracle.

Does the article handle ethnically discriminatory hiring practices? Neither "Divers-" and "ethnic"show up in the article, and if it's like Boston's Chinatown, workers are overwhelmingly Chinese.

People are often very naive about different cultures. In the west we're trained to view them as an interchangeable package of foods, languages, and perhaps dress. The differences are real and substantial, and fundamental assumptions about how the world works or ought to work are definitely not shared.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#253

Post by civilian »

int_19h wrote: post #228
civilian wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to believe that it's an article of faith for me :) I've heard convincing arguments for it, and the arguments against market monopolies haven't ever been satisfying. But, I also haven't taken a survey of all monopolies or wannabe-monopolies in history. Yeah, my view on monopolies comes from the base assumption that: "It's never cost-effective to try to interfere with the competition by either buying them…

I think that a lot of it is based on the general premise that market actors are nearly perfectly rational (which is the general premise in a lot of libertarian economic analysis, and, more broadly speaking, the Austrian school), which just doesn't hold up to practical observations.

Cool, so this is a good response to that https://fee.org/articles/do-free-markets-require-rational-ac...

> What Austrians and their fellow travelers can argue is that it’s not the rationality of market participants that matters, but the institutional context within which they act. In other words, rationality is not a feature of the individual choosers but of the market as a whole. Even if people make “mistakes” by not acting as the strict model would suggest, they will receive feedback from the competitive marketplace that will demonstrate their errors and give them the incentive and knowledge to correct them. Those who can recognize their biases and correct for them will do better than those who can’t, and markets enable us to do that when they are genuinely free and competitive. This is what Nobel laureate Vernon Smith calls “ecological rationality.” Even if individuals are irrational, the system as a whole produces rational outcomes.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#254

Post by mtempm »

culot wrote: post #234
nickparker wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beef and pork are significantly worse than seafood in terms of environmental impact. There's nothing to celebrate in the sources of American protein. If America was as hungry for seafood as East Asia, fisheries would have depleted enough to create frighteningly high prices long ago, and we'd probably have a thriving aquaculture industry today.

I live near the Great Lakes, so there is literally no such thing as a safe fish to eat. Every fish has a limit to how much you can eat and how often -- that is if you are an adult male, if female or child you are far more limited yet. Especially near me, where the waterways are also toiletways. You'd have to go out into the lake to escape the toilet and dioxin-laden water, where the fish should never be eaten, and ev…

I lived in Houston where you cant eat anything near the coast. When I went to Australia it was incredible you can fish and eat almost everywhere/everything near the coast.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#255

Post by paulddraper »

thoughtpalette wrote: post #230
paulddraper wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Markets also cut costs by eschewing extra technology and certain aesthetic choices—the Journal points out that shelves “are typically made of plywood and lined with newsprint,” prices are scrawled on cardboard instead of printed on stickers, and credit cards are not always accepted. Some people don't want to buy food with cardboard signs and cash. Hell, I've heard California even has people who are fans of convenie…

I pay a service to do my grocery shopping for me. It's a bit of a markup, but I highly value my personal time, don't own a vehicle and have an extreme dislike of grocery stores. There's a great market for such services (gig economy). Chicago Resident.

Exactly. I was being facetious, but the point is that rock-bottom prices aren't everything.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#256

Post by vram22 »

smhost wrote: post #197
briandear wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps some data to back that up? Some of the best restaurants and chefs in the world are American. Have you been to an American grocery store of any reasonable quality? The cheese selection of many big-city grocery stores rivals even French grocery stores. I shop in France all the time and I am still amazed at the variety at many American grocery stores. Try finding Napa/Chinese cabbage, fresh chiles, daikon radish…

The stereotype is pass around among restaurant owners as well. It's not a secret that the American palate is picky and easy to understand. Avoid foods that are mushy, gooey, slimy, or "weird" (even though most food is like that), and try to make it crispy, sweet, and/or salty. Sushi is gross, but put the rice on the outside (beacuse eww seaweed) and cover it in sweet sauce, and suddenly it's delicious. Chinese food i…

>crispy

An abomination of a word :)

It should be crisp, AFAIK.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#257

Post by weaksauce »

nyolfen wrote: post #103
look_lookatme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

i think the answer is simply that most of america is very far inland, and seafood is best fresh -- especially if one is especially sensitive to the 'fishy' taste it acquires after about a day or two, even frozen. every coastal community i've ever spent time in has a plethora of seafood restaurants, though i'm not sure if this extends to grocery stores.

A lot of fish need to be frozen for a period of time to kill the parasites to the FDA standards. Some types of fish and some farmed and contained fish doesn't need this treatment though. I don't think proximity to the ocean is a good metric as you can freeze fish for a few months with no noticeable degradation in quality. It can be held indefinitely at 0 degrees F I believe as well.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#258

Post by asah »

dxbydt wrote: post #60

Ha! I figured out the reason even before I read the whole article... always a gratifying feeling. That said, there are tons of food hacks if you want to save 30-40% and have a strong stomach. Buy your cashews, cumin seeds, turmeric, groundnuts, papayas, guavas from the nearby Indian store - there's tons of them in CA. Most of these are sourced from Fiji, Philippines, India etc, whereas Safeway would source cumin from…

also, ethnic grocers often have: - much fresher product - more varieties of a given item (e.g. mint) - stronger flavor / less watered-down varietals - items you can't find in mainstream grocers (e.g. rau ram)

At least in SF, no "strong stomach" is required - the ethnic grocers source from the central valley, same as everybody, and fruit is peeled and herbs are washed, same as you'd do with stuff from Safeway.

In particular, rau ram ("vietnamese coriander) is simply amazing-- it started showing up in grocers the past few years and my gf introduced me to it (she's from southeast asia) and it's mild and fascinating, and I keep finding new uses, both cooked and raw. 100% of people seem to like it, and if you're not sure, start by using it whole to flavor rice.

But you can only buy it in ethnic grocers.

(SF readers: the civic center farmer's market has one herbs farmer with all the vietnamese herbs: mint, rau ram, vn shiso, etc - $1.50 for two massive bunches, and much fresher than any grocer)

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#259

Post by empath75 »

I live in northern Virginia, and we have a lot of great Korean markets to shop at, and they're always slammed with people. It's rare that you go into the produce section and see less than two dozen people browsing. The local chain store might have 2 at any given time. And the prices and selection are incredible. The only downside is you have to do a little bit more picking to get ripe/fresh/good looking produce.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#260

Post by CPLX »

vram22 wrote: post #250
CPLX wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest national/ethnic group contributing to the American population is German, followed by the British Isles/Ireland, none of which are known for a heavily seafood based culinary tradition. Could be relevant as well.

>The largest national/ethnic group contributing to the American population is German, followed by the British Isles/Ireland I would have thought people from the British Isles were the largest group, based on what I've read about America, the Pilgrims, etc. Is that wrong?

Yes that's what people think instinctively but it's incorrect. Part of the issue is that two world wars served to erase tremendous amounts of the visible cultural legacy of the German influence on the US, streets and towns were renamed, biergardens turned into bars, and so on.

The culinary influence is right there in plain sight though if you look for it, from the names of our big mainstream brewing companies to our national favorites, the Frankfurter and the Hamburger.

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