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Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

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Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#191

Post by qiqing »

et-al wrote: post #136
ithinkinstereo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sushi is quite popular with the Chinese, both in the states with ABCs as well as in the mainland. See this article for one datapoint: http://www.worldfishing.net/news101/Comment/analysis/norway-...

To clarify, sushi is a recent development in mainland China. The article linked to agrees with that. However, rewind to pre-2000 China, and it'd be rare to find a sushi joint outside of a high-end hotel.

Rewind to Tang Dynasty China, and sushi would be very commonplace.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#192

Post by ams6110 »

look_lookatme wrote: post #74
tn135 wrote: post #66

As a fish loving Indian, I was totally surprised to see that in Capitalist America the choice of fish was absolutely pathetic. At American fish places you only get "shrimps" may be "large shrimps" and "small shrimps". Salmon, Bass, Red Snapper and just few handful of usual fish. My small village fish market offers at least 20 varieties of fish in India's coastal region. A proper fish market would offer at least 100.…

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

Americans have also been scared away from eating a lot of fish over fears of mercury and PCB contamination.

America is also a big place. Fresh fish spoils quickly. So no, you won't see a lot of selection at a midwestern supermarket. If you're near a coast, the selection and number of specialty seafood shops is a lot better.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#193

Post by jessaustin »

secstate wrote: post #175
briandear wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps some data to back that up? Some of the best restaurants and chefs in the world are American. Have you been to an American grocery store of any reasonable quality? The cheese selection of many big-city grocery stores rivals even French grocery stores. I shop in France all the time and I am still amazed at the variety at many American grocery stores. Try finding Napa/Chinese cabbage, fresh chiles, daikon radish…

I dunno. Sample size may have something to do with this. I live in a rural section of the US now, but spent a year living in Eastern provincial France and the difference in the cheese case makes me cry when I think about it. Americans stock their shelves with "swiss" "american" "jack" and "cheddar" with almost all of them being made in about a week in cheese factory somewhere. Contrast that with having TWO versions o…

Eh, there's more to food than cheese. Some of my favorite cuisines don't use it at all. The only times I've appreciated a large cheese selection is when I've lived where it was impossible to get milk with lactose included. Now that I'm back in rural USA real milk is easily available so I really don't miss the dozens of cheeses.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#194

Post by Animats »

civilian wrote: post #110
sleepingeights wrote: post #75

Capitalism in America means as close to monopolization and price gouging as much as possible. Even Silicon Valley is a very close approximation to a monopoly, sponsored by masses of delusional participants deluded into thinking they're accepted within the same ranks. The people in the US eat only two types of meat, a handful of types of vegetables and crops. Also the cost of fish in the US is very high because the US…

You might get something out of this article: http://www.americanteeth.org/2015/06/21/why-i-m-a-capitalist... If " Capitalism in America means as close to monopolization and price gouging as possible. " is your definition of capitalism, then you're off. (And I think that may be why you're being disagreed/downvoted on.) If you think that monopolization and price gouging is an emergent property of capitalism in America-…

What we tend to see in modern capitalism is convergence on duopoly. AT&T and Comcast. Google and Facebook. It seems to take about four competitors before there's real price competition. EU antitrust policy recognizes this, but the US does not.

There's a theory of duopolies.[1][2] Both parties don't have to form a cartel. Each party's optimal strategy is not full competition. It's a variation on the prisoner's dilemma.

[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=3ojsWuqmorEC&pg=PA346 [2] http://eml.berkeley.edu/~webfac/card/e101a_s05/101duopolythe...

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#195

Post by gambiting »

gutnor wrote: post #102
look_lookatme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

Same in the UK btw. The fish choice in the biggest supermarket is smaller than you would expect in local store in the middle of Spain, away from the coast. Same thing happens with meat. There is a huge reduction of variety, even at the local fishmonger/butcher, compared to continental Europe (I'm sure it is coming though) A limited choice is available all the time everywhere, but the variety is not anymore.

Yep, I felt like my choice was cut in half after I moved to the UK. Even if you go to a butcher the approach seems to be "here's the 5 cuts I made today, take it or leave it". And don't even try mentioning buying offal - even if I go to an actual butcher, offal is "special order only" and I have to wait a few days to get it. I live in a coastal town, and the choice of fresh fish is limited to just a few. Very disappointed.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#196

Post by zanny »

ams6110 wrote: post #192
look_lookatme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

Americans have also been scared away from eating a lot of fish over fears of mercury and PCB contamination. America is also a big place. Fresh fish spoils quickly. So no, you won't see a lot of selection at a midwestern supermarket. If you're near a coast, the selection and number of specialty seafood shops is a lot better.

I would be surprised if major metro areas didn't have enough seafood demand to justify building inland fish farms to supply the urban centers.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#197

Post by smhost »

briandear wrote: post #160
anigbrowl wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans avoid flavor because of capitalism, in my view. There is huge money in feeding people bland crap that's been processed as heavily as possible. Frankly, I'm astonished at people's willingness to consume shitty food that is obviously likely to have a detrimental impact on their health. I would prefer to go hungry or eat the same boring but nutritious meal day after day than consume bad food, and frankly I thi…

Perhaps some data to back that up? Some of the best restaurants and chefs in the world are American. Have you been to an American grocery store of any reasonable quality? The cheese selection of many big-city grocery stores rivals even French grocery stores. I shop in France all the time and I am still amazed at the variety at many American grocery stores. Try finding Napa/Chinese cabbage, fresh chiles, daikon radish…

The stereotype is pass around among restaurant owners as well. It's not a secret that the American palate is picky and easy to understand. Avoid foods that are mushy, gooey, slimy, or "weird" (even though most food is like that), and try to make it crispy, sweet, and/or salty. Sushi is gross, but put the rice on the outside (beacuse eww seaweed) and cover it in sweet sauce, and suddenly it's delicious. Chinese food is gross, so enterprising Chinese-Americans invented some generic salty/sweet deep fried garbage and it sells like crazy. Oh, and here's some deep fried pastry dough with superstitous nonsense thrown in.

Granted, Americans have gotten a lot better at food and culture in general in the past decade ever since the hipster/foodie-ism thing, but it still has a long way to go if it wants to ditch the image of the average American as the child who won't eat their vegetables.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#198

Post by zanny »

L_Rahman wrote: post #85
tn135 wrote: post #66

As a fish loving Indian, I was totally surprised to see that in Capitalist America the choice of fish was absolutely pathetic. At American fish places you only get "shrimps" may be "large shrimps" and "small shrimps". Salmon, Bass, Red Snapper and just few handful of usual fish. My small village fish market offers at least 20 varieties of fish in India's coastal region. A proper fish market would offer at least 100.…

Tradeoffs: America has a lot of land, and infrastructure to feed, raise and transport animals. Meat prices in America are so cheap relative to cost of living it's staggering. But yes, this means our seafood market choice is pretty bad.

Meat prices are also heavily subsidized to the tune of billions of dollars a year. It is probably the US's most subsidized "crop", even compared to the infamous corn.

The real price of most grocery store meat is in the ballpark of twice the sale price. The difference just comes out in taxes.

It is also what drives a lot of the unhealthy eating habits in the states.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#199

Post by jessaustin »

a3n wrote: post #126
XaspR8d wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People in the US tend to prefer fish that's already bland to begin with (cod, haddock, tilapia, and sometimes tuna or salmon) To be fair, in the Midwest this is often because there used to be a diet of much more flavorful freshwater fish from local lakes, but overfishing destroyed their populations and pushed prices way up, forcing cuisine to adapt to cheap saltwater fish.

Fresh water fish strikes me as likely very labor intensive, and labor is searched for and destroyed in this country, in favor of industrial sized processes and yields. I see big fillets of salmon and other large fish in Krogers, from the large industrial supply chain, next to the occasional little trouts and whatevers, and I often wonder "where do those little guys come from? How is it possible for them to get into t…

Someone in USA Midwest who doesn't just go fishing for himself in any of the many lakes and streams that are open to the public, has very little basis for complaint about selection of fresh fish to eat. The reason we have a variety of sport fish in our inland waters, is because commercial fishing is not allowed.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#200

Post by emodendroket »

Maybe this is true in New York, but the produce at the local Chinese markets where I live is not particularly fresh and in some cases you can tell from the packaging that it was intended for sale at a different supermarket (I assume this indicates it wasn't fresh enough for the original place of sale because it always looks just short of rotten in these cases).
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