Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#211

Post by nickparker » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:38 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #172

look_lookatme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

Which we should all rejoice. Because the oceans are already being over fished to the point we're facing a very real likelihood of collapse. If Americans were pulling at the same rate as nations like Japan or India, we'd all be in a very bad place already.

Beef and pork are significantly worse than seafood in terms of environmental impact. There's nothing to celebrate in the sources of American protein.

If America was as hungry for seafood as East Asia, fisheries would have depleted enough to create frighteningly high prices long ago, and we'd probably have a thriving aquaculture industry today.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#212

Post by VLM » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #103

look_lookatme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

i think the answer is simply that most of america is very far inland, and seafood is best fresh -- especially if one is especially sensitive to the 'fishy' taste it acquires after about a day or two, even frozen. every coastal community i've ever spent time in has a plethora of seafood restaurants, though i'm not sure if this extends to grocery stores.

Speaking of fresh, its hard enough to eat fresh produce when you only shop once a week.

I have done the "drive to the gourmet food store to get fresh fish supposedly flown in by air that's only a couple hours old" and its expensive, like $15 to $20 per pound and interesting and tasted very fresh and delicious but tonight my kids have baseball practice and my son has scouts and weekly food shopping night is Thursday to avoid the weekend rush so looks like frozen fish tonight.

Farm to table is good signalling but not really practical for perhaps 95% of the population if not more. Something from the freezer aisle that can be cooked in the oven and tastes OK is better than something better that I can't eat because I don't have two hours tonight for special store supply runs and homemade preparations.

Also especially inland we have plenty of lakes and recreational fishermen and they all know about mercury poisoning such that they can only occasionally eat what they catch. Someone who can only safely eat one walleye per month looks at me pretty weird for feeding my kids fish every week "You having the pediatrician test them for mercury?"

Its also extremely bad social signalling, I know its wrong to even say this, but fish is generally pretty boring and bland. Its like trying to obtain artisinal flavored chicken or artisinal flavored sea or mountain salts. There's a reason people put a lot of work into what goes in or nearby the dish in a fish, spices and stuff. I'll blow money and time on something that will taste good. Fish isn't in that list.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#213

Post by engx » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #192

look_lookatme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

Americans have also been scared away from eating a lot of fish over fears of mercury and PCB contamination. America is also a big place. Fresh fish spoils quickly. So no, you won't see a lot of selection at a midwestern supermarket. If you're near a coast, the selection and number of specialty seafood shops is a lot better.

I'm not directly responding to your comment but some of the best sushi chefs use fish that was frozen. And this says all sushi served in the US has to be freezed to kill any bacteria-

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/sushi-fresh-f...

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#214

Post by a3n » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

afuchs wrote: post #171

a3n wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fresh water fish strikes me as likely very labor intensive, and labor is searched for and destroyed in this country, in favor of industrial sized processes and yields. I see big fillets of salmon and other large fish in Krogers, from the large industrial supply chain, next to the occasional little trouts and whatevers, and I often wonder "where do those little guys come from? How is it possible for them to get into t…

Considering that the Midwest contains the Great Lakes [1][2], how would fresh water fishing be any more labor intensive than in the open ocean? [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lake_Erie#/media... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes

So is that where the trout in Krogers display case down here in Denver come from? Trout trawlers in the Great Lakes?

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#215

Post by leekyle » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

look_lookatme wrote: post #74

tn135 wrote: post #66

As a fish loving Indian, I was totally surprised to see that in Capitalist America the choice of fish was absolutely pathetic. At American fish places you only get "shrimps" may be "large shrimps" and "small shrimps". Salmon, Bass, Red Snapper and just few handful of usual fish. My small village fish market offers at least 20 varieties of fish in India's coastal region. A proper fish market would offer at least 100.…

For whatever reason Americans just don't eat a lot of seafood. This is why the choices are so bad in "Capitalist America" -- there's not enough demand. It's literally capitalism at work. Some theorize that this is due to American's avoiding flavor in general [1]. http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/01/327248504/the...

I wonder how much this has to do with peoples common initial exposure to bad seafood. Good fish doesn't smell fishy and most the fish you get at a supermarket has a strong fishy smell/flavor. You shouldn't be able to smell the fish until you put it up to your nose.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#216

Post by princeb » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:50 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #122

stcredzero wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not Chinatown Said dozens of times by my Chinese-born girlfriend in SF Chinatown: "I have no idea what this is." "This is weird."

Born where? I believe west coast Chinatowns were built by Cantonese and separated by 100+ years. See the recent post about american chinese food.

american chinese food is still quite similar to cantonese food.

at least, much more similar to cantonese food than it is to northern chinese food, which in my (cantonese heritage) opinion look more like korean, given its extreme use of sour preserved vegetables and grains.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#217

Post by raarts » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:52 PM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #159

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the landmass is far from the coasts, true, but the population concentrates at the coasts. So the geography is probably not the reason why fish is less popular in the US. There are probably multiple reasons but one could be that the competition from meat is very strong. Coming from Europe, I was always surprised how cheap meat is in the US.

>Coming from Europe, I was always surprised how cheap meat is in the US. Lower quality meat is cheaper. Similar quality meat (for example, in Scotland, all the beef is grass-fed, I don't know about the rest of the EU) seems to cost a similar amount in either area.

Also from Europe, I was always surprised by the quality of the meat in the US.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#218

Post by erikb » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

This doesn't seem logical at all. Big chains usually have the lowest price, because they can enforce unfair deals on logistics and producers. Most things you buy cheaper from the super market than from the factory. Why should it be different with vegetables? It's not like the garden is next to the Chinatown shop.

Also Chinese people are not known for their empathy. They are usually fighters. If they run more efficient than another shop/chain they just conquer them. That they stay that small means they can't beat the big chains.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#219

Post by f4rker » Tue, May 02, 2017, 9:58 PM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #204

TLDR; Chinatown sources from local small producers and are able to get big discounts. They also reduce cost by skimping on things like good furniture, printed labels, credit cards etc and keep their margins to 10-12% over wholesale.

Skimping on things like paying taxes, health standards, hiring people outside the family network, etc.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#220

Post by batter » Tue, May 02, 2017, 10:01 PM UTC

metaphorm wrote: post #71

aardvark291 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the linked article doesn't say anything about lack of sanitation, and almost implies the opposite. »Imbruce, who's researched the Chinatown produce economy for over a decade, is the author of From Farm to Canal Street: Chinatown’s Alternative Food Network in the Global Marketplace. In the Journal she distills to Kadet the real reason Chinatown can keep prices low: “Chinatown’s 80-plus produce markets are chea…

they don't strictly need refrigeration because of rapid turnover (most of the inventory sells same day) and because the buyers are knowledgable about what condition the produce really is. that said, if you've ever walked down Mott St. on a hot summer afternoon there will be no doubt in your nose that the produce isn't making the sanitation grade that you will find at Whole Foods.

Just recently bought fish in Whole Foods. From store to home ~ 25 minutes. Just after that time fish was smelling awful. So i'm not buy fish anymore there.