I'm not entirely sure the hula-hooping incident - merely observing girls hula hooping is not a crime, is it? - by itself constitutes a hostile atmosphere for women, unless inappropriate comments were being made. What we have here is some completely inappropriate, cloak and dagger, soap opera shit being perpetrated by the wife of the cofounder, who has no business meddling in the affairs of his employees. (If true, th…
Ye, calling this sexism, is either an editorial edit by TC, for reasons I can only assume is high clickbait title, or JAH has some issues herself, which it seems like considering that she thought watching girls hulahoop is sexist.
Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet, she initiated that chain of events. You should think more carefully about what the word "power" means.
Are you aware of how patronising this response is? If you want to make a comment about the nature of power, make it. Don't tell me to think more carefully. I'm not sure precisely which event you're saying she initiated, but if you're talking about her quitting her job and then speaking out like this: you should think about why someone would put their reputation and livelihood on the line.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#243[deleted]
It's terrible that anyone should experience what he put her through. (Regardless of the founder's wife stuff, he produced an exceptionally hostile work environment by actively undoing her work, plus likely made her fear for her safety when he did not immediately respect her requests to leave after professing his love.) It's problematic that women in tech are much more likely to experience this than men (because of gender ratios and men tending to be more forward), and that the power dynamics and implicit threat of violence will also tend to be worse when women are the recipients of the attention.
Given this, having your first response be to ask her to be empathetic is ridiculous. Do we ask the victims of shootings to empathize with the perpetrators who had mental illness, had absentee parents, grew up poor, etc? Sometimes these issues come up in the wake of tragedies, and they are an important part of understanding the problem.
But the victim is the absolute last person to ask the be empathetic. She has an unquestionable right to feel personally safe and to do her work without others hostilely inhibiting her. When someone infringes on that, she's already being unfairly burdened. It's completely unfair to further burden her with an imperative to be understanding of what lead him to be the kind of person that would do that, rather than take every measure to remedy the situation, and to call out GitHub for failing to adequately do so.
Yes, it would be great if everyone empathized with those who wrong them. But until it becomes commonplace for people to show understanding toward people who mug them on the street because anyone willing to risk their safety and freedom for a few hundred dollars has likely hard a very hard life rather than reporting it to the police and seeking their imprisonment, let's focus on big, clear concerns: What he did to her was completely unacceptable, and if GitHub failed to quickly take action to end it and ensure it would not happen again, they deserve to be publicly shamed.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll be more than tempted. To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or blog post about sexism in tech. If programmers with a Y-chromosome are exponentially less likely to either sue us or get us labelled sexist jerks in the press, then that's who we're hiring.
To use a metaphor you might understand I think you're programming around the bug instead of debugging. Maybe, shocking as it is, women are reacting to real injustices in these cases that you read about in "any article or blog post about sexism in tech" . If your immediate reaction to someone being called out for sexism is to distance yourself from women, have you ever considered that perhaps your attitude is sexist?…
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#245Remember that in a small company, especially startups, everyone around you including the bosses wife, has something to prove. Through whatever means, work or socially. Usually both.
Unfortunately having something to prove is basically the instinct of a prepubescent teen and has nothing to do with getting work done.
Mix that with sexual tension and you have a problem. A big big problem.
In college my gf worked for an unnamed insurance company where her boss would repeatedly invite her into his office to harrass her and show her naked pictures of himself until she finally quit.
And this was a BIG company, so you can imagine how a small company run by social misfits would treat you.
We have a long way to go folks...a long way to go.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point was not so much about the veracity of the claims, but rather as a comment on the severity of the issue (true or not).
Is there any value in commenting on the severity of the issue in such a manner?
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#247There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…
The hula hooping moment was important because it visibly demonstrated her male coworkers lack of respect for women as people. They were unabashedly staring at their female coworkers as "eyecandy" in that moment and even defended their doing so.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. PS: To avoid looking one-sided and narrow (which I believe I'm not) I really feel bad about this whole situation and the lady who had to go through that. Personally liked a github as a company.
I try to avoid staring at people because my parents taught me that it's rude to stare. That's not to say that I don't admire people that I find attractive. I just do it subtly to avoid making people feel uncomfortable.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#249There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…
I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. PS: To avoid looking one-sided and narrow (which I believe I'm not) I really feel bad about this whole situation and the lady who had to go through that. Personally liked a github as a company.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#250My take: The founder leaves, at least for six months, and his wife has no further involvement ever. The clueless spurned programmer leaves, at very least works from home for six months or more but is preferably publicly fired. His behaviour is unacceptably unprofessional and as good as he might be it's not good enough to destroy a culture. The entire team (and many commenters here need this too) get coached on why its rude to stare at people, even if they are hula hooping or different. And of course a public apology (and hurry), financial support for an appropriate cause and make Ms Horvath financially happy.
It will be interesting to see the actual response. The immediate one should be to stand all the protagonists down.