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OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

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Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#241

Post by SwellJoe »

If the price of OpenSSH is keeping all of OpenBSD running, I'll send OpenBSD some money.

I've never used OpenBSD except to tinker with it, and likely never will. But, I use OpenSSH hundreds of times a day (both in automated jobs and in the terminal). It is utterly necessary to me; likely necessary for all of us, really. So, while a company would have shed the extra weight and focused on its core product that users love years ago, OpenBSD keeps OpenSSH as a side effect. I guess I'm OK with that.

Maybe it's even necessary for OpenSSH developers to understand systems level programming at a level only OS developers can grasp, and maybe OpenSSH wouldn't be the absolute beast it is today without that kind of influence and widespread knowledge found in the OpenBSD team. I dunno. Whatever it is, I support the people and the things they do for me in OpenSSH even if I don't care much about OpenBSD.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#242

Post by vezzy-fnord »

diestl wrote: post #147

I wonder if this is a case of OS Darwinism. The fact that it seems to be hanging on by a thread shows most companies are using and contributing to Linux. I have never used OpenBSD so not sure what it overs over Linux as a Unix implementation?

The OS itself has never seen mainstream adoption, but it is renowned for being very well designed, as well as pioneering several OS security features like W^X, strlcat, strlcpy and countless other tweaks.

That and the foundation's most important projects are probably OpenSSH (absolutely essential, main focus here) and OpenNTPD, rather than the OS itself.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#243

Post by res0nat0r »

Fomite wrote: post #157
wbl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The code quality and the fact that maintainer is blunt about problems are not unrelated.

Neither is a project getting shut down because they can't raise money and one of their public faces being a jerk.

I highly doubt they are falling short of cash because of personality issues. I'm going to go with the fact that OpenBSD is much less popular than Linux and more niche, thus has a lot smaller userbase. And an even smaller userbase that is willing to donate money.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#244

Post by kbenson »

weland wrote: post #207
davidgerard wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And OpenBSD has the best-written man pages in all of Unix. When I got thrown in the deep end with Solaris, many years ago, I'd read the Solaris man page for the options, but first I'd read the OpenBSD man page to work out what the hell the command was for and why.

Yes, that's an important point. The Linux manpages are a joke, they're half useless almost all the time.

This was my impression as well after using OpenBSD, and when I pointed that out a while back on HN, it was pointed out that the core linux manpages have gotten much, much better in many cases[1]. In that respect, it may be another example of the GP comment.

1: My go-to example was always ifconfig, but linux's manpage for ip(8) really isn't that bad, as is actually the linux equivalent. Quality probably varies quite a bit based on the package that supplies the utility though, while OpenBSD's quality is fairly universal.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#245

Post by res0nat0r »

drewcrawford wrote: post #193
werid wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropping platforms will lose them developers. Developers who also work on the main platforms, or atleast whose work crosses over.

You know what else loses developers? Shutting down the project.

Sounds like people should donate then yes? Shut down a niche arch and the developer will leave and not contribute anything, even to x86_64, just the same as the project going broke.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#246

Post by andyjohnson0 »

calpaterson wrote: post #36
jdludlow wrote: post #23

> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the > development and build machines. A number of logistical reasons > prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might > offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go > that way. I don't understand this comment. If the choice came down to moving versus shutting down entirely, why is moving an unacceptable answer?

> why is moving an unacceptable answer It seems likely that they don't trust anyone else to have physical access to the machines for security reasons. Their threat model probably includes national governments.

Interesting thought. I wonder what precautions are taken w/r/t Linux?

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#247

Post by coolnow »

vinceguidry wrote: post #161
Fomite wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Don't be a dick to people giving you money - customers or donors. If you can't turn it off, don't be donor facing.

Sure, they should totally just get their PR person on it. Oh look, now they're asking for $40,000

You don't need a PR person; you just need someone who's not a dick.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#248

Post by maerF0x0 »

jms703 wrote: post #107
jijji wrote: post #91

The bigger question is who pays $2000/month for electricity for a server?

Can we get them some solar panels?

You'd need something like a 10KW system? 2396 hrs sunshine in calgary. They use something like 24MWhrs .. is my maths working? Plus a massive battery system to get through the night, ... plus account for shorter sunlight in the winter.. Yup, not helpful :P

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#249

Post by marcosdumay »

SwellJoe wrote: post #239
weland wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's an important point. The Linux manpages are a joke, they're half useless almost all the time.

The most offensive man pages are GNU project pages that effectively say, "for real documentation read the info page". Which, as someone that can never remember how to use info, is frustrating and just serves to piss me off...my first thought is "and a big fuck you to you, too". And then I look it up online so I don't have to read how to use info before I can read how to use the command I was looking for docs on. I do…

Info pages are hypertext, and because of that they are better suited for a complete manual for a complex program than man pages.

But we have other hypertext formats available. It'd be better if GNU started using some format that everybody already usees and knows how to write.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#250

Post by TkTech »

scott_s wrote: post #221
gommm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, just donated, I use openssh every day so it just makes sense.

[scott_s@local ~] history | wc -l 500 [scott_s@local ~] history | grep ssh | wc -l 191 Donated.

Grep has a -c flag :)

    $ history | grep -c ssh
        380
Donated.
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