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Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

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Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#241

Post by georgeorwell »

Evbn wrote: post #145
stevewilhelm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"16 year olds making 6 figures writing their own iphone apps " The reality is there are very few people making six figures writing their own iphone apps. Even fewer that can sustain that level of income as a sole proprietorship for a couple of decades, which is what you will need to do to retire at fifty. For every programmer who does create a sustainable business, fewer still get rich doing so. One reason, creating…

"goog luck" Great Fredudian typo, or greatest Freudian typo?

Definitely a Fredudian typo, Freudian would have been "Good fuck".

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#242

Post by pfedor »

tptacek wrote: post #204

Please note extremely effective demonstration of "privilege". Two employee candidates interview successively. One is 25, the other 53. Both are comparably conversant in technology, evince comparable cognitive capability, are equivalently literate in the problem domain being tackled by the role they're interviewing for. Privilege: the 25 year old is not asked (overtly or subtextually) whether they "want to be doing th…

I wouldn't say our field devalues competence and experience. It's just that in our field seniority doesn't give you such an enormous advantage as in other fields. In many professions, if you are 40+ you will expect a multiple of the salary that an equally competent 25 years old gets. Software engineering is more of a meritocracy, you may get paid a lot even at a young age if you're good, and it won't get much better with age unless your skills also get better (and in practice, contrary to what all of us like to believe, it's hard to get significantly better over time.)

The contrast with other professions is so great that this age-blindness seems like age-based discrimination, kind of like a 80 degrees pool seems cold if you've just jumped out of a hot tub.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#243

Post by Toenex »

jmadsen wrote: post #240
edw519 wrote: post #60

57, programming for 33 years with hardly a day off, and having more fun than ever. My motivation? It's not about the technology, the tools, the apps, the business, the customers, or even the money, although any of those can provide plenty of motivation. And believe it or not, it's not even about the happy dance feeling I get when something I built works for the first time. It's about the achievements of those who use…

youngster at 45. can't wait till I retire so I can finally learn some of the fringe stuff I want to play with but have no time. to me, being a programmer is living the life of a perpetual student. how can anyone grow bored with that?

Great point. I think a lot of us who still love programming after 20 years or more enjoy the constant change in the industry and the never ending opportunities to learn.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#244

Post by justincormack »

robomartin wrote: post #189

Programming, by itself, the mechanics of it, isn't something that I find stimulative enough to derive long-term enjoyment. I think the author is right in pointing out that there's an ugly side to programming that includes bugs, bad API's, bad tools, bad documentation, etc. This is what I have come to term "programmer on programmer violence". We certainly can't blame anyone else for these issues. This I don't enjoy. N…

That is the reason Siemens actually became a bank, so they could lend to their customers. Its a weird situation.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#245

Post by rehack »

edw519 wrote: post #60

57, programming for 33 years with hardly a day off, and having more fun than ever. My motivation? It's not about the technology, the tools, the apps, the business, the customers, or even the money, although any of those can provide plenty of motivation. And believe it or not, it's not even about the happy dance feeling I get when something I built works for the first time. It's about the achievements of those who use…

I turned 41 yesterday. Have been programming for over 18 years. Like you I also love it. And since work coding does not offer me enough of a challenge always. I like to do some fun (challenge kind of) coding on my own. Some random examples of the fun programming I have done:

1) When I started out programming, some two decades back, I did a program which was tough for me then (I believe its a pretty standard program given to people who are learning programming). It was - 'How to place 8 queens on a chess board so that they don't attack each other'.

2) A C -program which prints itself.

3) More recently I read Norvig's solving every Sudoku puzzle (http://norvig.com/sudoku.html), so went ahead and wrote my own (without looking at his solution of course).

4) Solving this ('Going Office' on Interview Street : https://www.interviewstreet.com/challenges/dashboard/#proble...) one gave me immense amount of satisfaction, when I did a couple of months back. As I had not done complicated graph stuff earlier. I game my family a treat, just because I was so happy when all my test cases passed :-)

So programming has been a joy of my life. Hope to do it for many more years. Will try.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#246

Post by tluyben2 »

goatforce5 wrote: post #182
edw519 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much it. I'm one of those guys who comes to Hacker News, reviews what others have built, and immediately thinks 2 things: - That is so cool! - So what? Like most others, I love playing around with widgets and technology just for fun and to see what happens. But the satisfaction from this is usually short lived. I liken playing around with techology to running around and having lots of good sex with stra…

I build things that can help others have sex with strangers. I can quite clearly remember the first time someone came up and told me they were getting married because of my spare-time project.

My first big side project was that; I have received over a 1000 cards/mails/etc of people who are married and/or have babies because of that side project I created with my wife on vacation on the canary islands. We expected it wouldn't get more than a handful of members, but it had 10.000 after a few months and kept growing. Very satisfying feeling for something just built for fun.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#247

Post by tptacek »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #224
tptacek wrote: post #204

Please note extremely effective demonstration of "privilege". Two employee candidates interview successively. One is 25, the other 53. Both are comparably conversant in technology, evince comparable cognitive capability, are equivalently literate in the problem domain being tackled by the role they're interviewing for. Privilege: the 25 year old is not asked (overtly or subtextually) whether they "want to be doing th…

It's about the rate of change. Luthiers are practicing an art that would be recognizable to Stradivari, three hundred years ago. The tools are made of more modern materials but they're basically the same. The product has a more modern design (both functionally and stylistically) but is basically the same. More importantly, the culture and business of instrument-making is largely the same. You have a shop in your gara…

Where you seem to see progress, I just see fashion.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#248

Post by tptacek »

pfedor wrote: post #242
tptacek wrote: post #204

Please note extremely effective demonstration of "privilege". Two employee candidates interview successively. One is 25, the other 53. Both are comparably conversant in technology, evince comparable cognitive capability, are equivalently literate in the problem domain being tackled by the role they're interviewing for. Privilege: the 25 year old is not asked (overtly or subtextually) whether they "want to be doing th…

I wouldn't say our field devalues competence and experience. It's just that in our field seniority doesn't give you such an enormous advantage as in other fields. In many professions, if you are 40+ you will expect a multiple of the salary that an equally competent 25 years old gets. Software engineering is more of a meritocracy, you may get paid a lot even at a young age if you're good, and it won't get much better…

This is a myth. The reason that there's no huge premium on seniority in software development is that there are thousands and thousands of 25 year old senior software developers who are extraordinarily well compensated (relative to the broader market) and thus less wiggle room. That's a benefit to working in this field --- you reach your prime earning years earlier --- not a liability for older developers.

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#249

Post by pfedor »

tptacek wrote: post #248
pfedor wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say our field devalues competence and experience. It's just that in our field seniority doesn't give you such an enormous advantage as in other fields. In many professions, if you are 40+ you will expect a multiple of the salary that an equally competent 25 years old gets. Software engineering is more of a meritocracy, you may get paid a lot even at a young age if you're good, and it won't get much better…

This is a myth. The reason that there's no huge premium on seniority in software development is that there are thousands and thousands of 25 year old senior software developers who are extraordinarily well compensated (relative to the broader market) and thus less wiggle room. That's a benefit to working in this field --- you reach your prime earning years earlier --- not a liability for older developers.

It would seem to me that you're in exact agreement with what I said, if not for the fact that you started with "This is a myth." What exactly is it that you disagree with?

Re: Do You Really Want to be Doing this When You're 50?

#250

Post by nine_k »

mengine wrote: post #185
nine_k wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is retirement worth pursuing at all? If you do something that gives you no kicks and only pays your bills, then yes, throwing away that nasty but necessary source of subsistence feels liberating. But if you enjoy what you're doing every day and have no problem getting up in the morning for that, you only want more, and "retirement" feels like having your favorite toy taken from you. Imagine someone saying: "Mr. T…

I agree with your retirement point but Telsa didn't exactly get satisfaction from the achievements of Edison while working for him.

Tesla lest Edison's company in 1885, when he was 29. I think it's a bit too young an age for a retirement.
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