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NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

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Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#241

Post by rayiner »

impossiblefork wrote: post #226
rayiner wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re projecting culturally-determined views about what “rich and happy” people do onto others. Rich people taking up sports and eating in moderation is a WASP thing. It’s much less of a thing in the south. And it’s not a thing at all in say the Indian subcontinent, where it’s unusual for adults to play sports.

I don't think so. Swedes aren't WASPs, but we are this way. I think Spanish people and Germans are too. I agree that it is as you say in India, but surely both Indian-Americans and Asian-American must become a bit this other way, since they'll probably work with many WASPs, and surely they get affected by media and general societal expectations?

I was talking about American subgroups. The moralizing around sports and exercise tends to be a WASP thing (which refers specifically to northeastern WASPs, not anyone who fits the literal definition of the term). Among Asian Americans it depends on where you are—they tend to assimilate into the local culture.

My point is that suggesting that people who eat and gain weight must be unhappy and coping, because happy rich people play sports, is a culturally based assumption. American WASPs and Northern Europeans absolutely stand out in that respect. Even in East Asian cultures with strong social pressure to not gain weight, adults playing sports isn’t common.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#242

Post by Der_Einzige »

kayo_20211030 wrote: post #143
Der_Einzige wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way more of those kids are vaping marijuana, which has an orders of magnitude lower threat profile than both smoking AND tobacco vape oil rigs. Also, even full smoking of marijuana is less dirty than smoking cigs, and a significant amount of marijuana smokers use things like bongs, bubblers, and other water filtration systems which do (slightly) reduce the harm of the smoke. Marijuana is straight up harm reduction ov…

> Way more of those kids are vaping marijuana, which has an orders of magnitude lower threat profile than both smoking AND tobacco vape oil rigs. Very much depends on how you define threat. I'd very much prefer that the driver in the other lane is smoking a ciggy rather that vaping marijuana in the interest of preserving their individual health.

Stoned drivers will actually slow the fuck down and often don’t tailgate. The average ciggie smoking driver is an asshole who will tailgate in their oversized dodge ram pickup with their brights on.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#243

Post by xboxnolifes »

squigz wrote: post #225
jjice wrote: post #87

I'm blown away by how vaping took over. I was a senior in high school once Juul started to get popular. We'd joke about our peers that willingly took on an addiction when our generation was mostly in the clear from being addicted to cigarettes. Then some of my friends who'd joke about it started vaping. I don't even know how they started, but they did. Let me be clear - it's not nearly as annoying or destructive for…

> The thing that gets me is that we were so close to not having any casual nicotine in my generation A couple people have claimed this so far in this thread. Is there any data to support this hypothesis? My feeling is the percentage addicted to nicotine wouldn't have been significantly lower without vaping.

> My feeling is the percentage addicted to nicotine wouldn't have been significantly lower without vaping.

We know smoking was trending downward. What other means of nicotine are there besides that and nicotine gum for previous-smokers.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#244

Post by rayiner »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #159
rayiner wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana is legal for recreational use in the states where most people live. I'm in a Romney 2012 county and there's a giant dispensary on the main street that looks like an Apple store.

It is still a schedule 1 drug subject to criminal federal prosecution for possession and sale. The feds are just ignoring their obligation to uphold the law.

The fact that it’s technically illegal under federal law may be relevant in some context, but not to my specific point, which is about the effect of the law on individual behavior. As you acknowledge, the federal government isn’t enforcing the federal law. To people in states where it’s been legalized, the federal law is a legal technicality. I had to remind my Oregonian in-laws not to bring weed on the plane recently because they forgot that they’d be in federal jurisdiction passing through the airport. (Their logic was it’s legal in Oregon and legal in Maryland…)

My point is that the legal and cultural barriers that kept young adults from heading down to their local dispensary to buy dope have disappeared. So while we were on the cusp of freeing people from smoking in the 1990s, we have just made it easy and effectively legal to smoke a different thing, and everyone seems to have forgotten that inhaling smoke into your lungs is bad for you.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#245

Post by danielscrubs »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #71
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thankfully never had to quit cigarettes or heroin, but in my experience quitting coffee is awful . 3-5 days of migraine-level headaches and nausea. And the whole time you're thinking, "all this could go away with just one little cup of coffee, which all the studies say has health benefits even. Just one little cup"

Why quit coffee if it has health benefits?

On caffeine I am very skittish, cannot take naps and sleep quality suffers which affects my memory and optimism.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#246

Post by joquarky »

39896880 wrote: post #169
dyauspitr wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health benefits for acuity and long term memory. Addiction in itself is not a bad thing.

I think you mean “dependency” and not “addiction.” Addiction is by definition a bad thing: “Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behaviour that produces natural reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences. ” You’re right about nicotine though. It’s the delivery that’s the problem, in addition to the addictive proper…

Anyone else remember when "internet addiction" was a thing?

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#247

Post by tallanvor »

alephnerd wrote: post #103
nunez wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But smoking and coffee are still popular throughout the rest of the world, and I don't think we top the leaderboard in alcohol consumption...

Tobacco usage in the US is much higher than peers in other developed countries [0] due to limited sin taxes and lack of enforcement of black market tobacco sales (eg. Cigarette smuggling). Also, our rate of spirits consumption is higher than most developed countries and comparable to Russia [1]. Most other developed countries tend to stick to beer and wine. [0] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-who…

Your own links contradict your claims. The US is higher than some developed countries and lower than others. When looking at tobacco, you're doing a disservice to exclude smokeless tobacco products, which would significantly increase the numbers in many countries - including Norway and Sweden.

Additionally, whether or not Americans consume more spirits is pretty irrelevant when your link is looking at the equivalent of pure alcohol consumption, that shows the US is below countries like Germany, France, the UK, and Spain, and probably ends up being about average compared to western nations.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#248

Post by bayindirh »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #102
bayindirh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine addiction is chronic and very hard to break. You can reset caffeine tolerance and dependence in 10 days.

Can you link a study for this? I'd like to read more.

Here's a small research tome I collected yesterday. Please note that I have access to all of the papers' full texts. I was unable to find the original papers I read at that time (i.e. 7 years ago!), but found the video which brought me to the entrance of the rabbit hole.

- The base video I have talked about is from TedED. It's here [0].

- This study was done on rats in 1985 but verifies that caffeine tolerance is real [1].

- Another controlled study on humans about caffeine tolerance [2] involved one group taking caffeine and the others taking a placebo. Caffeine drinkers taking the placebo reported withdrawal symptoms, and non-drinkers taking caffeine reported overstimulation.

- A meta-study [3] details the symptoms and durations of caffeine withdrawal's effects. The paper cites that effects persist between 2 to 9 days, and the peak of the syndrome is around 20 to 51 hours. It also notes that caffeine introduction during this phase alleviates symptoms (This study basically confirms that what I have gone through after I stopped drinking coffee as I noted in a previous comment).

- This interesting study [4] explores the body's caffeine response via blood pressure change. Subjects are administered high doses of caffeine, and blood pressure is monitored. After day three, the blood pressure normalizes, and spikes disappear. The abstinence required to reset the pressure response is less than three weeks, pointing that the body resets caffeine tolerance in less than three weeks.

If you need the papers, or want more resources, please let me know.

Have a nice day.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOjvYRgjCyU

[1]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320585...

[2]: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02245285

[3]: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-2000-x

[4]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC370671/

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#249

Post by holonsphere »

ryandrake wrote: post #238
whatevertrevor wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP said amoral not immoral. I think their intent is more along the lines of companies are not human, hence they are immune to discussions of morality. I tend to agree with that. Moralizing corporate entities will not bring us the outcomes we desire because humans are great at creating internal structures to diffuse accountability. Strongly enforced well-defined legislation _is_ the social contract, might as well thro…

Yes, I deliberately used the word amoral. We need to stop anthropomorphizing companies (not just true for Oracle[1]). They aren't moral or immoral. They are simply unfeeling lawnmowers that chew up anything in their way and produce money. They neither like nor dislike you--they don't even think about you. They just robotically do whatever they can do to make money. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15886728

I sometimes like to imagine a derelect business ai from the 50s running the whole show. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_cybernetics

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#250

Post by berniedurfee »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #62
gwbas1c wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man. Quitting cigarettes is about as hard as quitting heroin. In contrast, quitting coffee is much, much easier. On a more personal note, when "The King's Speech" was in theaters I kept watching people smoke cigarettes on screen, and went out and bought some Drum. (Loose tobacco that comes with rolling papers.) Within a few days I started getting a voice in my…

I've thankfully never had to quit cigarettes or heroin, but in my experience quitting coffee is awful . 3-5 days of migraine-level headaches and nausea. And the whole time you're thinking, "all this could go away with just one little cup of coffee, which all the studies say has health benefits even. Just one little cup"

Quitting nicotine ends up being a lifetime battle for most people in my experience.

I’ve know too many people who simply cannot quit smoking, even when it’s clear they’re rotting from the inside out.

Nicotine addiction is on an entirely different level than caffeine.

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