We could have universal Covid vaccines soon • Hacker News Board

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#241

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 10:42 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #129

metadat wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> What I think doesn't matter. From my perspective, about 50% of the United States is on a totally different wavelength, they seem to casually take insane risks WRT covid, and inexplicably focus on hating minorities (which I just don't get, why hate people who haven't done anything to you, when you could just ignore them instead?). Do you really believe that’s what drives people? You don’t think maybe it’s that these…

> Do you really believe that’s what drives people?

I've seen plenty examples of entrenched prejudice in people against others that can't possibly have any negative effect on their own existence.

And in many cases it's very hard not to see it as irrational "hatred" where, as per GP's point, even just pretending the objects of their hatred simply don't exist would surely be a better response.

Presumably hatred for entire classes of people had some evolutionary advantage in the past (perhaps it helped with tribal unity/identification, or conferred success in waging war against other groups who were competing for the same resources) but it's pretty obviously now a dangerous maladaption in the modern highly populated/connected world.

BTW, I'm pretty sure most people (on HN at least) can distinguish between those that object to immigration on racist grounds vs those who have genuine concerns about how to integrate others from different cultures or with difficult backgrounds. For a start even just a single such immigrant is usually one too many for the first group. And the latter spend their time researching/implementing solutions, or personally doing what they can to help newcomers settle in while trying to remain realistic about the rate that can be successfully sustained.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#242

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

metadat wrote: post #23

robhunter wrote: post #21

I'm not sure the public - at least in North America - has much of an appetite for any more Covid vaccines. In the US: - Only about 2% of kids under 5 have had a 1st dose since they were introduced nearly a month ago - Only 30% of the 5-11 year old population has had 2 doses - So much damage has been done to public trust - "You will not get Covid if you get the vaccine; the vaccine eliminates the spread of the disease…

Your extrapolations from the cited metrics make no sense. People are less interested in the currently available vaccines because they don't protect against the current dominant strain (BA.5).

I've had three jabs within the last 12 months and while eligible for a 4th, tend to feel it's worth waiting for a shot that's better tailored for protection against current variants, and I'm sure there are others. But it's not people like me that explain how many people haven't even bothered with a 2nd or 3rd jab at all (which have been available here for 9+ months).

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#243

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 10:53 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #115

etchalon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people get the Flu vaccine every year. People are lazy.

People don't get them due to efficacy. People know the makers plan in advance and try to predict the strain that will hit and their prognostication is understandably sub-par.

The pros still vastly outweigh the cons. I hadn't been getting one largely out of laziness and slight needle phobia in previous years. I changed only once it became a requirement for visiting aged care homes, and even though they don't enforce it, have continued getting my annual jabs. Flu vaccines do actually generally provide quite good protection against infection of the most common strains.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#244

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 10:58 AM UTC

ephimetheus wrote: post #236

to1y wrote: post #93

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Well the polio vaccine left people blind iirc. Unfortunately the anti-vax group isnt completely crazy this time. If you haven't seen or heard of adverse reactions click your heels and go kiss your mother: you're one of the lucky ones. I had to get the vac for int travel and to this day, 6 months later, I still have not recovered my strength. I had covid before that and since then, the first time I barely noticed it,…

I know literally not a single person who has had a severe reaction to any of the vaccines. I find it fascinating that on HN anecdata that conforms with the vaccine being dangerous is totally accepted, but anecdata about people getting very sick from COVID are either considered lies or statistical outliers.

I do know at least a couple that have had severe reactions, especially skin conditions and issues with their eye muscles of all things. Of course there are risks taking vaccines, but they're minor compared to the risks of what covid can do to you. The vaccine reactions are very rarely persistent beyond 6 months or so. I know at least a few people who are still struggling with what covid did to their bodies over 12 months ago with little indication it will improve with time.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#245

Post by MrMan » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 11:15 AM UTC

openfuture wrote: post #16

Lol nobody touching this discussion with a however-long-you-can-think-of pole. At least not anymore. My contribution: I think we have been destroying trust systematically for so long that people are losing their sanity. Finally it is time to rethink our foundations and stop coercing. Currently there are various things that take trust for granted and they will need to become a great deal more persuasive if they want t…

social media is the root of the problem. that is what destroys trust, not "science." we will only figure this out collectively after more genocides

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#246

Post by MrMan » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 11:21 AM UTC

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #240

Doyce wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't the FDA release like 60k pages of those documents a couple months ago? I know Pfizer didn't want that, but people are forgetting before COVID mRNA medicine was a holy grail. So much so a lot of groups didn't pursue it since they saw it as a pipe dream. COVID's greatest gift was causing massive influxes of research dollars into them and most likely fast tracking these new drugs 15 years. mRna will literally be…

> We've had roughly (last time I checked several months ago) a couple of dozen verified deaths relating to the vaccine "Verified" > That's not really reported because anyone who expects every single human on the planet to have zero negative reaction to a drug Exactly, so why take the risk if you're not in a vulnerable group to Covid.

for public health

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#247

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 11:24 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #163

sovnade wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - in science, definitions change all the time. We redefined what a planet was and booted Pluto out of the group. Which part of the new definition do you disagree with as being a valid definition for a modern vaccine? And what difference does it make functionally? The covid vaccines were a product that gave you protection against a disease. Everyone knows that's what a vaccine is. I don't see why it matters what t…

> Which part of the new definition do you disagree with as being a valid definition for a modern vaccine? Isn't the fundamental point of a vaccine to protect you from a disease? Because that's exactly the part of the definition they removed.

Where are you seeing that? And clearly the fundamental point of current COVID vaccines is to protect you from disease (they may not help much preventing you from catching it, but they certainly protect you once you have caught it).

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#248

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 11:28 AM UTC

joeman1000 wrote: post #73

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought nobody was forced to take the vaccine?

We are forced to in Australia. I was barred from taking exams this semester since I didn’t have the vaccine. Others lose their jobs. There is no freedom of choice there. It’s a gun wrapped in a blanket.

Er, no, we're not. Certain businesses and government organisations require you to be vaccinated to undertake certain roles. Just as they impose any number of other requirements in order for you to receive the benefits of gainful employment. Nobody has been so much as threatened with arrest or had any physical force applied in order to ensure they get vaccinated.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#249

Post by sobriquet9 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 11:30 AM UTC

metadat wrote: post #189

sobriquet9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any vaccine study had odds of transmission as one of the end points. How do you even design such a study?

It's not complicated- by reducing the odds of contracting covid, the odds of transmission are reduced.

Vaccine efficacy is measured against symptomatic COVID‑19. It's quite possible that asymptomatic carriers transmit more (e.g., because they do not self isolate, or because they shed the virus for a longer period of time).

You may be right, I'm just saying that it does not follow from the results of vaccine clinical trials.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#250

Post by wizofaus » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 11:36 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #182

yesenadam wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Half the country demonized the other half of the country And also demonized Australia - "fascist"! "authoritarian"! - for being 6 months behind in COVID and still giving a shit when the USA already didn't. For us in Australia, early 2020 was 6 months of the USA looking like a disaster movie while almost noone had it here.

But did Australia's draconian lockdowns actually even accomplish anything other than delaying the inevitable? Hasn't COVID been going strong there since Christmas, despite everything they put their citizens through?

What is life but delaying the inevitability of death? ;) It's not an unreasonable question, and with 20/20 hindsight some of the more draconian restrictions possibly wouldn't be justifiable. But we did take it very very seriously and saved ourselves the nightmarish scenes seen in many other countries that put extreme levels of strain on healthcare systems and robbed huge numbers of people's lives prematurely. Of the deaths now, the vast majority are among those 80+, and those who have chosen not to get vaccinated. Hospitalisations are still high, and negatively impacting the health care system's ability to provide quality care, but epidemiologists seem confident it will peak soon even without heavy handed restrictions/ mandates. There's no doubt we could have dealt with it better but I'm still grateful our governments generally listened to the health advice given to them.