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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fashionable to preach helplessness. Apple can't change China by themselves, but they are not by themselves. If we all follow that reasoning, then nothing ever happens. To surrender and retreat from the field of battle is a sure way to lose. Despair is a leading psyops tactic - targeted at enemies; let's not help them. It would be interesting to talk about what organizations like Apple can and cannot do; what…

How are they deceiving people outside China when only showing the difference inside China?

Well, for one thing because we outside China would automatically assume they are showing the same thing inside China as we see. Now we know that is not true. That is deceptive.

... And a a shareholder, I was also kept in the dark -- Which is actually also pretty problematic and deceptive.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misjudge how much the Anglophone world looks down on America, and Americans in general. We take great pride in Australia of our differences from that place. We're much more similar to the British (and them to us) than to the Americans.

... And yet there's a net brain drain to the US.

You misunderstand immigration, as I explained in a different reply.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed it was firstly access to Chinese manufacturing. They can probably still make humongous profits without the Chinese market, but presumably their global sales rely on first manufacturing in China?

Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there,…

This is true and sadly my favourite motorcycle cycle company Honda started building some of their bikes in Vietnam. Whether this will effect build quality I am not sure but not as impressed as made in Japan as I used to be.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#244
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing with what Thiel is saying here, but it's pretty hypocritical for him to be criticizing here considering he's the co-founder of Palantir, a company that feeds some tasty tasty morsels to the surveillance state and military-industrial complex.

Pointing out someone else's hypocrisy isn't an inconsistency. If someone says doing business with a military is unacceptable and then proceeds to do business with a military, they're a hypocrite. That's still true even if the person telling you this does business with a military.

Is it hypocritical to work with the US military, and not the Chinese military?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#245
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular internet belief, hunter gatherer life sucked way worse.

There is absolutely no way at all to verify that claim - considering 'better/worse' entirely depends on the happiness of those individuals. Something we have no way of measuring.

https://ourworldindata.org/happiness-and-life-satisfaction people have never been happier

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#246
post #4

So...local politicians, in a market where Apple was making money hand-over-fist, were feeling kinda used. By a huge foreign corporation. And the they started getting sticky on all sorts of regulatory things that Apple needed. Until Apple's CEO promised to do a bunch of "local investing" in their country. How different is this from the 1980's in the U.S., when Japanese auto makers decided that they needed to start bui…

> How different is this from the 1980's in the U.S. Historians generally agree that Martina Navratilova was rightfully and lawfully detained for insulting the Republican party. And that it was important for Toyota to comply with US lawful interception requirements for any communication in automobiles.

>Historians generally agree that Martina Navratilova was rightfully and lawfully detained for insulting the Republican party.What incident? What insult? What historians?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#247
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these things have a corrupting influence on the principles of the company over time: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html It's better to figure out an exit (imo) than continue to capitulate on these kinds of things, particularly in a country that is hostile to foreign companies and IP (and particularly if one of your company values is the privacy of your users). --- >>Peter Thiel: Well I…

Not disagreeing with what Thiel is saying here, but it's pretty hypocritical for him to be criticizing here considering he's the co-founder of Palantir, a company that feeds some tasty tasty morsels to the surveillance state and military-industrial complex.

It is no more hypocritical than US government supporting US military, and opposing Chinese military. Thiel is just on team USA, that’s all.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#248
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> ... seeking to merge with other democratic nations (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan). That presumes that other countries want to be part of America. I suspect strongly you'll find that's not the case. Merger then has a more "1812" feeling to it. The only folks tripping over their shoelaces to be US states are Puerto Rico and DC. > America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. E…

> All your components are made there, by everyone, and the best-in-class assembly folks are all there. Supply chain and logistics are all there.

The first part of this statement is inaccurate and the second part is accurate. No, all of the components in your iPhone are not made in China. Yes, they have the logistics and capability to assemble efficiently. No, they do not make everything in an iPhone or Mac—not even close. Examples of major components often not made in China:

- Microprocessor (Taiwan)

- Memory (South Korea)

- Screen glass (USA)

- Audio, Wifi Chips (USA)

- Gyroscope (Switzerland)

- Accelerometer (Germany)

- Display (Japan)

- Camera (Japan)

The batteries tend to be made in China, but many of the raw materials that go into the batteries are not. Also, Apple has successfully had iPhones assembled in India, so there's no reason to believe if they chose to, they couldn't (at very significant cost and ramping up and effort) move assembly. iPhone prices might go up then though.

See more here: https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503

Or checkout the book The One Device https://amzn.to/3pDolNW

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#249

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

Anyone who has worked in mapping/GIS at a company that sells in China has seen this in action. The "display these islands larger" requests, the obfuscated coordinate system for geo-aligning maps, and other map content regulatory issues[1] all need to be dealt with if you want your map product available in the country. Not excusing it, but every company with maps there is required to do this, not just Apple. 1: https:…

So you just Have to Lie with Maps?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#250

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

"Apple has, and will, fold to government pressure faster than a lawn chair."

As a publicly-traded, trillion dollar company, where profits are at stake, this would seem to make sense.

What does not seem to make sense is why anyone would believe Apple might ignore its own financial interests and those of its shareholders and deliberately sacrifice a major opportunity^1 in order to resist government pressure based on some political issue. Why would anyone hold such an assumption. There is nothing to support it^2 and it does not seem to make any sense.

1. That includes the opportunity for Chinese customers to purchase the Apple Watch, albeit with a disproportional size representation of some geographical aspect in the Maps application

2. NB. If resisting government pressure resulted in an increase or no change in profits then that is a different situation. In that case, resisting, or even appearing to resist governmental pressure, would seem to make sense.

To put it another way, no one should be surprised by decisions like this one, whereas some of us should be surprised if we ever learn that a publicly-traded company with the market cap of Apple deliberately sacrificed an opportunity like selling to the Chinese market^3 because of a political issue. It is doubtful we would ever learn about such a decision, for various reasons.

3. Or using Chinese manufacturing facilities

"But the Maps app had become a priority for Apple..."

Apple acts in its own interests. It seems strange that anyone would believe that it acts in someone else's. Unless it increases profits, that would not make any sense.

Generally, large companies do not protect citizens from abuses of government. It is supposed to the the other way around. Governments are supposed to protect citizens from abuses of large corporations.

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