Earlier quoted context omitted.
4) You oppose tyranny. People should be free to make their own choices. By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger, except those who choose to be endangered (not isolating / sheltering at home, unmasked, unvaccinated). 5) You oppose discrimination. I'm immune but not vaccinated. Where's my immunity certificate?
I want to drive a car without the tyranny of speed limits, I’m not putting anyone in danger except those who choose to be endangered (driving a car, walking a street). I oppose discrimination. I know how to drive a car, where is my driver’s license?
NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
241–250 of 1001 posts
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#242Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
Why would you be opposed to a policy requiring everyone to jog three miles every day? Jogging is good for your health, its side effects are minor and benefits to the society in whole will be tremendous.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#243Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#244Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pointing out a slippery slope doesn’t mean it isn’t worth considering the consequences. My position is indeed speculative, however it’s not without evidence. We very rarely regain rights or freedoms when they are taken so I think it’s valid to be concerned about the same thing happening here.
> not without evidence Please give examples
At this point, there is no power conceivable that the Federal government could not claim under the umbrella of "it might affect commerce somewhere".
Most of the powers the Federal government has seized from the states have been rationalized under the ICC. Like making it illegal for a farmer to grow wheat on his own farm to feed his own animals. [1]
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .
Those vaccines have had years of use behind them. The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology and haven't even been given anything past emergency approval. This is an apples and oranges comparison.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#247Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…
Somehow I think there will be a major shifting of goalposts by the anti-vax camp around that time.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry but the whole "let people make their own decisions" is BS. Making epidemiological decisions isn't something that most people are qualified to do. I have seen the takes from random people and 99% of them are abject garbage.
The science around covid has been fluid this entire time. We aren't even sure if these vaccines will work against other covid variants in the future. What makes anyone qualified to make decisions over someone else's choice of what they should put in their body? If the vaccines are effective, then you can make the choice if you feel comfortable getting them and then being around other people. I don't even think people…
Science _is_ fluid by its very nature because it's a process, not an outcome.
But processes can be well-executed or not. Scientists, with all their human and institutional flaws, are still just so, so much more qualified than the lay public to make informed opinions that it's not even funny.
It's the same as with doctors: a medical second opinions is obtained from another doctor, not by yourself, because ultimately expert opinions may be challenged by others who have at least a similar amount of training and expertise.
Lay opinions have gigantic, brutal knowledge gaps. The gaps are so huge as to make lay opinions essentially useless.
I have spent an hour a day, every day, since the beginning of the pandemic, reading up on the scientific literature of COVID. I am overeducated geek with a computer science degree. Do you know how many reasonable assertions I can make about the pandemic? About as much as validating that the calculations behind the p-values of studies are correct, and nothing more. I can, at most, summarize and explain the high-level reasoning behind most epidemiologists' and governments's decisions, with the pros and cons that they themselves have suggested.
We are talking about over 600 hours of research as an educated layman and still no novel conclusions. To think that people who have spent at most a fraction of that time, with no university-level knowledge of statistics or basics of germ theory, can make reasonable assumptions, has no relation to reality.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#249You people can argue all you want. I voted with my feet and I not only left New York City, I left the U.S.S.A . Even a blind man could see whats coming next!
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#250To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…
>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…