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Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

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Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#241

Post by whatshisface »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #220
samatman wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would characterize working over talented foreigners in this way as a grift, rather than a scam. They pay the high sticker price because it's rationally their best choice, but the value they're purchasing isn't in the degree, but rather the favorable status they earn in the immigration labyrinth. This isn't good for them, except in comparison to other options. It certainly isn't good for native-born Americans, who a…

It should also be viewed as potentially disadvantaging people already in the US. If these programs are catering to wealthy foreigners looking to immigrate, then we're not serving whatever need may be inside the country already.

In some fields, there is no need for masters degrees at all. For example in physics you can get a bachelors and career out, or get a PhD and be a physicist (industrial or academic), but there are no jobs I can think of that a masters would qualify you for that a bachelors wouldn't.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#242

Post by grawprog »

A friend of mine and I went through the same bachelor's degree program. My friend ended up continuing on to get a masters degree. Even my friend admitted they just went for the degree to get the degree. In the end, my friend went back to the job they were doing after the first degree and has been there ever since.

Even by the end of the bachelor's program I took, it felt like I was kind of wasting money. As soon as teachers started trying to convince us to move on into the masters degree program, it was just a hard no from me. It would have cost the same as what I'd already paid for school, if not more and wasn't going to lead to a significant increase in job opportunities.

By the end of that last year, it had become a lot more clear the school was more about making money than anything else.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#243

Post by dragonwriter »

whatshisface wrote: post #241
R0b0t1 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should also be viewed as potentially disadvantaging people already in the US. If these programs are catering to wealthy foreigners looking to immigrate, then we're not serving whatever need may be inside the country already.

In some fields, there is no need for masters degrees at all. For example in physics you can get a bachelors and career out, or get a PhD and be a physicist (industrial or academic), but there are no jobs I can think of that a masters would qualify you for that a bachelors wouldn't.

> but there are no jobs I can think of that a masters would qualify you for that a bachelors wouldn't.

Typically, community college faculty (and sometimes university lecturers) require a minimum of a master's in the field, and at least the first is as true of physics as it is generally.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#244

Post by jonnycomputer »

ydlr wrote: post #136
jonnycomputer wrote: post #36

I had a friend who was wanting to get a master's degree in poetry, and it cost about 45k a year, back in early 2000s. I strongly advised against it, my friend did not take well to my advice. Hope it all turned out well. I have no problem with people getting degrees in the arts. My spouse has a Master's in fine arts, from a university in Europe. But she didn't acquire any debt from that degree, while I did in the US w…

I did my MFA in poetry in the US. Tuition and living expenses were completely covered by fellowships and a TA position. I think this is the norm. While expensive on paper, no one really pays that. Most programs are not predatory like those described in article.

I certainly hope that was the case for her.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#245

Post by memyselfi »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #187
thrav wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consulting straight out of school is a really tough sell. Consultants are most often considered valuable by their employers because of their experience in a given industry. I would not want to try to pitch myself as a consultant as a foreigner with little to no American work experience. If you’re doing it yourself, sales will be a challenge.

To speak more strongly, it’s going to be impossible unless you’re a rock star.

I am no rock star but my first three gigs after my MS were consulting gigs. 1 software and 2 network consulting jobs, including a high speed metro area network.

It is fun and flexible but not as nice as a steady job. Plus, I have no people skills. :)

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#246

Post by LatteLazy »

chmod600 wrote: post #226
LatteLazy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that just mean rich people got masters they didn't need and poor people didn't get ones they did need? Maybe markets have a difference concept of efficiency than society...

Poor people who choose degrees with good career prospects will get a loan. Poor people who want a degree with bad career prospects may not have the chance to waste a year or more of their life pursuing one.

Surely no one will get a loan because as soon as you pay your last fee, you can declare bankruptcy? That way you don't have to pay back that money and there is nothing to be repo'd. And if no one pays back loans, lends don't lend.

Isn't this the broad logic behind student loans not be dischargable already?

I don't think the current US system is correct. But I think there needs to be some balance rather than just never being dischargable.

Some of the "equity" based models offered by a few places (where you pay a percentage of income for X years) seem better to me. Or at least suitable in some cases.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#247

Post by skewart »

websites2022 wrote: post #173
tonfreed wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the debt problem is one of a predatory nature. I love music and history, but I came from a family that pretty much only got by because of welfare. I didn't have the time or money to waste getting a degree in something that had zero job prospects after school. You show a $50k a year degree to an 18 year old from a more middle to upper middle class family, though, and they're not going to understand how much mo…

> We were sold something that hasn't held true, and I think a lot of people are very bitter about that. In what way has it not held true? 33% of Americans have at least a four year degree and earn an average of $1m more than their peers without over their lifetimes. By all measures, university is a gateway to easy money after. So long as you finish.

I bet Ferrari owners earn even more than that compared to people without Ferraris.

I don’t think that means we should tell young people to take out loans to buy a Ferrari because it’s a ticket to easy money.

When the only kids going to college were either rich or highly motivated then having a degree made you stand out and could open doors. When everyone gets a degree it doesn’t make you stand out any more. Instead, not having a degree makes you look bad. (And unlike high school, which anyone can attend for free, most kids in the US need to take on a lot of debt just so the don’t get left behind.)

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#248

Post by R0b0t1 »

whatshisface wrote: post #241
R0b0t1 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should also be viewed as potentially disadvantaging people already in the US. If these programs are catering to wealthy foreigners looking to immigrate, then we're not serving whatever need may be inside the country already.

In some fields, there is no need for masters degrees at all. For example in physics you can get a bachelors and career out, or get a PhD and be a physicist (industrial or academic), but there are no jobs I can think of that a masters would qualify you for that a bachelors wouldn't.

Some employers pay for higher education, but there is little ability for people to actually get that education. Many people in this thread do not value a masters specifically because they are not a good investment just looking at the price.

If the education system was different, more people would want them, and they would be more useful. See commenter below who notes that CS masters are usually quite useful but also are not employment gating and have many reasons to stay competitive with other programs.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#249

Post by wildmanxx »

Come on, could the title be any more click-baity?

Arts and U.S. Ivy are missing key words in the title.

If you lift your eyes beyond the U.S., there are countries where the student does not pay tuition and the offered degree program actually contains really useful material with a high quality teaching experience.

But sure, let's just all watch 10min youtube clips and claim it's at least as good.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#250

Post by R0b0t1 »

wirthjason wrote: post #14

One of the key issues I see is that we don’t place a high enough value on adult education. A philosophy professor of mine told me the word “andragogy”, which is the theory of adult education. It’s different from “pedagogy” which means the education of children. I always thought that learning is learning. It never occurred to me that there’s a difference between how and why children learn and that it could be differen…

People in the US place extremely high values on education. What is lacking is people's ability to pay for it.
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