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Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

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Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#201

Post by Planktonne »

k__ wrote: post #64
wirthjason wrote: post #14

One of the key issues I see is that we don’t place a high enough value on adult education. A philosophy professor of mine told me the word “andragogy”, which is the theory of adult education. It’s different from “pedagogy” which means the education of children. I always thought that learning is learning. It never occurred to me that there’s a difference between how and why children learn and that it could be differen…

Is there also Gynagogy?

There isn't.

'Andragogy' is not a great name for a theory which tries to describe how all adults, not just men, learn. However, it is a really telling name about the kinds of assumptions baked into the theory [1].

I work in adult education; I don't use the word 'andragogy' to describe what I do, and it's a bit of a warning sign if someone else does.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0260691793...

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#202

Post by dboreham »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #159
phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

Assuming you're actually smart and skilled - wouldn't it be better to just start your own consulting business, or if you're really ambitious, eventually an agency? Aren't H1-B visa workers mostly in extremely HCOL areas and significantly underpaid / taken advantage of? I imagine if you're from India and you really want to get out of India - this sounds like a good deal (although wouldn't $50k for tuition be hard to g…

That H1-B workers are "taken advantage of" is a myth. Yes some of them are but it isn't the case that if you hold such a visa you are being underpaid. Source: was an H1-B holder.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#203

Post by slumdev »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #159
phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

Assuming you're actually smart and skilled - wouldn't it be better to just start your own consulting business, or if you're really ambitious, eventually an agency? Aren't H1-B visa workers mostly in extremely HCOL areas and significantly underpaid / taken advantage of? I imagine if you're from India and you really want to get out of India - this sounds like a good deal (although wouldn't $50k for tuition be hard to g…

No, they're also abused in MCOL and LCOL areas. And they might be smart and skilled, but most of the ones I interviewed are lousy software engineers.

If we were talking about people with master's degrees from MIT or Stanford, it'd be a different ball game.

But I can't tell you how many candidates I've seen with something like a "Master of Science in Information Systems from the University of South Central Appalachia".

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#204

Post by techsupporter »

dragonwriter wrote: post #192
lordnacho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_high_school In Denmark and some neighboring countries there's this concept of a school you can go to just to learn stuff later in life, as an ongoing thing. There's a whole bunch of themes (sports, history, etc), and often you can book yourself in for whatever amount of time makes sense for you.

> In Denmark and some neighboring countries there's this concept of a school you can go to just to learn stuff later in life, as an ongoing thing We have those in the US; we don't have a general collective name for them, but there are both private for-profit ones with a variety of (mostly narrow) specialities, either standalone or as adjuncts to other related businesses (selling, e.g., products in the field that it t…

My whole life, I've heard of those places as either "FunEd" or "The Learning Annex" and I didn't realize until well into adulthood that those were proper nouns, not the generic name for "classes you take as a grownup just for interest."

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#205

Post by dboreham »

torginus wrote: post #172
phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

Well, even then framing a $50k degree as a workaround for US immigration woes, and not as an $50k worth of added value in terms of skills and education makes it sound like a racket, even if the numbers work out in the students' favour.

The USA essentially runs on rackets. E.g higher education, changing engine oil at 5000 miles, Citizens United...

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#206

Post by samatman »

phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

I would characterize working over talented foreigners in this way as a grift, rather than a scam.

They pay the high sticker price because it's rationally their best choice, but the value they're purchasing isn't in the degree, but rather the favorable status they earn in the immigration labyrinth.

This isn't good for them, except in comparison to other options. It certainly isn't good for native-born Americans, who are (for the most part) stuck paying the same high sticker prices, without getting the features which justify the high cost of the product.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#207

Post by hedgehawk »

I'm not sure how to take this article considering that I am trying to switch into tech with a Biology undergrad with some CS coursework.

I'm already been admitted to OMSCS but I've been thinking of applying to on-campus masters programs at Cornell, USC, and Stanford but the >$50k price tag is making me resist.

Are these on-campus programs at prestigious universities worth it to get access to high-growth startups and big tech companies as well as more face-to-face time with instructors and other classmates as opposed to a part-time online masters?

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#208

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

fnord77 wrote: post #175
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you're actually smart and skilled - wouldn't it be better to just start your own consulting business, or if you're really ambitious, eventually an agency? Aren't H1-B visa workers mostly in extremely HCOL areas and significantly underpaid / taken advantage of? I imagine if you're from India and you really want to get out of India - this sounds like a good deal (although wouldn't $50k for tuition be hard to g…

> Assuming you're actually smart and skilled as an interviewer, I see many w/ masters degrees who are neither.

Right - I think a lot of people hope that by being more educated they'll get "smarter". That's not really how it works. You just get more educated.

In software, you DO need a lot of skills. But I think more important than that is having the ability to learn new things/skills quickly (being smart). The industry is always changing and evolving.

College is only going to get you the skills - maybe, a lot of times they teach you things that aren't that useful in the job market and don't teach you the things that are.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#209

Post by titanomachy »

hedgehawk wrote: post #207

I'm not sure how to take this article considering that I am trying to switch into tech with a Biology undergrad with some CS coursework. I'm already been admitted to OMSCS but I've been thinking of applying to on-campus masters programs at Cornell, USC, and Stanford but the >$50k price tag is making me resist. Are these on-campus programs at prestigious universities worth it to get access to high-growth startups and…

I think the easiest path into tech is through internships. Being a student at a well-known university can help get you in the door for good internships, but it doesn’t have to be an expensive private college. Some schools also have a “second bachelor’s” program in CS which might get you into the kind of internships you want.

I was in a similar situation as you. I did a 3-month “boot camp” and then worked at an unknown startup until FAANG recruiters started to email me, but obviously YMMV.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#210

Post by BeetleB »

wffurr wrote: post #40

My masters degree in Computer Science was incredibly educating and opened many career doors for me. It filled in a lot of gaps that my undergraduate education left, and significantly raised my profile amongst recruiters. CS might be the exception to the rule about Masters degrees though.

The article is poorly titled - it's mostly about non-tech degrees or online programs.

In engineering, an MS in CS has the least value to employers. However, in other areas of engineering, it has a pretty high value. Many big companies will not let you do EE design work with just a BS, for example.

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