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The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

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Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#241

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

> As the linked article points out, employers often look for the degree, but do not believe it is much of an indicator of quality and don't expect new grads to walk in the door with the needed skills. As a former recruiter I think that sentiment is pretty spot on. I don't think I ever asked a candidate about the details of their education. It was just never relevant in comparison to their experience.

Universities aren't tech schools; their purpose is not job training.

My understanding is that employers used to be comfortable providing pretty extensive job training, and they probably should start doing that again. IMHO, it's wishful thinking to expect any kind of school to produce new grads that can "walk in the door with the needed skills," especially in a field as diverse as software engineering.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#242
One very dangerous thing about university I notice is that it encourage age discrimination. And that propagate to the industry hiring. Very few people with family will choose to go to university full time, and hence can't further their knowledge. Also discrimination is so rampant that even online degree is not given same weight as the classroom even though the classes are exactly same (for example stanford SCPD). So definitely we need a movement to stop this discrimination and kill this so called universities.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#244

College is a huge scam imo. Paying thousands of dollars for a class on calculus that has 100 plus people in it is robbery. You can easily get that knowledge online for free. The only reason to go is for the piece of paper.

In many countries (except US) such course would be free or quite affordable. It's just a matter of policy.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#245

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

Your specific experience is great, and I'm glad for you. The point here, however, is what University is for all people, not just for individual cases like yours where things align nicely, and where maybe your own character and personality (and some of your professors and class mates) helped you get a meaningful experience out of it. My personal opinion is that the article is mostly right about what doesn't make sense…

It's odd to me how "experience" has replaced "education" as the goal of universities. Like the comment says, "y'all are using it wrong":

"University is a place where teachers and students who are interested in a field meet to learn and research together."

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an extremely old joke (like 100+ years old; I can't find the source atm) that goes something like: "US universities are the best high schools in the world". And it's true. It's not safe to assume that someone with only a high school education will be able to write well, do basic mathematics, etc. The high school grads who go on to teach themselves how to program are an extreme outlier. The entire US education…

> The entire US education system needs an overhaul. You can't really fix our university system without making corresponding reforms in K-12. Sure you can, have an opt-out model for students like they have in Germanic countries by the time you're in your mid-teens and apprenticeships in a various crafts and professions to help them into working Life. It works really well, and prepares them for a life in a ROBUST manuf…

> I could enjoy music, without the theory or the knowledge behind it,

One of the most enriching classes I took was The Art of Listening to Music.

It was a grand tour through music history and practice up until the early 20th century. I learned how to understand the compositional elements that go into making music, and while the class was biased towards western classical music, by the time the quarter was over I found I had an appreciation for an incredibly wide variety of music, whereas prior I listened to only a few genres.

> I'd say outside of STEM there really isn't a need for most to go to a University campus,

Have you ever met someone who can do 0(ish) delay translation between languages? With no accent? A non-university program to teach that would end up looking like a university. To do it properly the translator needs deep cultural understanding of the target language, professional training in pronunciation, and a lot of practice.

And why are arts programs useless? Sure art collectives can form and group buy resources, hire models, pay for trips to destinations, and bring in more experienced artists to help teach technique, but at some point again you've recreated a university.

None of this even goes into the value of the core classes. Having people educated about their own country's history, and about world history, having an understanding of economic systems, geopolitics, and mathematics, these are all worthwhile endeavors. A University offers are curated selection of courses and subjects, with pedological methods that have, presumably, been tested over time (some over centuries!) to be effective.

Is the system perfect? Heck no, spiraling costs are evidence of that, but throwing away a system that has, at minimum, allowed for the past 2 centuries of dramatic growth of civilization, seems a bit hasty.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#249
The value of that $75k/year was never from the classes themselves but from the social proof, networking, and opportunity to live among other like minded young people at similar stages of their lives (and exposure to different people/ideas through that). The classes themselves are essentially commodities. A lot of highly ranked universities don’t even have great teachers for many of their classes.

Universities that derive much of their value for being a proxy for some combination of intelligence/privilege can keep their value going into the future because they’ll likely remain just as selective if not more so over time. It’s the not-particularly-selective, small private colleges and universities which have their business model under threat, IMO

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