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The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

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Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#231

Post by [deleted] »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #86
intended wrote: post #65

American higher education discussion is usually misplaced because it’s a middle class jobs discussion with extra steps. create the factory jobs which don’t need a degree and many people will be happier and colleges will no longer be a part of a non-normally distributed outcomes market. People learn in a variety of ways, and the abysmal completion rates from MOOCs clearly indicate that IT enables education does not so…

I always expected the drop out rates for MOOCs to be high. The cost of entry is low. If you look at organisations like the Open University it's a different picture. People have to put their hand in their wallets and that seems to be enough to fix the problem.

[deleted]

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#232

Post by intended »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #86
intended wrote: post #65

American higher education discussion is usually misplaced because it’s a middle class jobs discussion with extra steps. create the factory jobs which don’t need a degree and many people will be happier and colleges will no longer be a part of a non-normally distributed outcomes market. People learn in a variety of ways, and the abysmal completion rates from MOOCs clearly indicate that IT enables education does not so…

I always expected the drop out rates for MOOCs to be high. The cost of entry is low. If you look at organisations like the Open University it's a different picture. People have to put their hand in their wallets and that seems to be enough to fix the problem.

that underscores how our assumptions and solutions don’t make sense - free, quality education avaiLable at any time? That was the holy grail which we thought we had achieved when Salman khan‘S videos started getting shared.

Instead we have to concoct filters and tools to get a ~12-13% average completion rate.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#233

Post by MaxBarraclough »

dleslie wrote: post #32

I still buy CDs and rip them to MP3s. They work when cellular data isn't available, they have excellent sound quality, they're easy to organize, and there's no vendor lock-in who's spying on my listening habits.

Do you have the option to use something better than MP3?

How's the 'loudness war' going with modern CDs?

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#234

Post by dougmwne »

vangelis wrote: post #192
watwut wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delayed gratification means that you are willing to work on tasks that are not immediately fun or are frustrating or when manager is not looking. It means that you are more likely to keep doing tasks whose benefit is in the future (like writing tests). It means that you dont need pat on the back and managerial supervision so often to keep motivating. Lack of healthy respect for authority typically means more fights a…

There's a difference between actual respect for authority and knowing when to shut up as well. I could not like management but I have nothing to gain from getting into a fight.

If we cannot have your love, then your fear will suffice.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#235

Post by teuobk »

The further in time I am removed from my university years, the more convinced I become that the social interaction was the true root of the experience's value. To quote Stephen Leacock's 1920 take on university life:

"The real thing for the student is the life and environment that surrounds him. All that he really learns he learns, in a sense, by the active operation of his own intellect and not as the passive recipient of lectures. And for this active operation what he needs most is the continued and intimate contact with his fellows. Students must live together and eat together, talk and smoke together. Experience shows that that is how their minds really grow.

[...]

If I were founding a university -- and I say it with all the seriousness of which I am capable, I would found first a smoking room; then when I had a little more money in hand I would found a dormitory, then after that, or more properly with that, a decent reading room and a library. After that, if I still had money over that I couldn't use, I would hire a professor and get some textbooks."

Source: https://news.library.mcgill.ca/stephen-leacocks-the-need-for...

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#236

Post by Melting_Harps »

throwawaygh wrote: post #156
OGWhales wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is so many jobs require a college degree for no other purpose than further general education skills. I am of the opinion that public schooling needs to be extended to include these skills and then we still need higher education where the exact experiences you described are the main point. Far too many people go through college for no other reason than to get some degree, doesn’t even matter what deg…

There's an extremely old joke (like 100+ years old; I can't find the source atm) that goes something like: "US universities are the best high schools in the world". And it's true. It's not safe to assume that someone with only a high school education will be able to write well, do basic mathematics, etc. The high school grads who go on to teach themselves how to program are an extreme outlier. The entire US education…

> The entire US education system needs an overhaul. You can't really fix our university system without making corresponding reforms in K-12.

Sure you can, have an opt-out model for students like they have in Germanic countries by the time you're in your mid-teens and apprenticeships in a various crafts and professions to help them into working Life. It works really well, and prepares them for a life in a ROBUST manufacturing Industry, especially now as the West is finally trying to decouple form the CCP's horrible Human Right's violating dependence and corruption.

I'd say outside of STEM there really isn't a need for most to go to a University campus, there really isn't. I often philosphized with grad students despite declining my honorary position in the department as I couldn't afford to deviate from my studies and debate moral ethics for fun, despite being promised a 'fast track' career in Law.

I could enjoy music, without the theory or the knowledge behind it, and began to bedroom DJ, eventually I even got to meet and know what would later become really famous EDM composers from the UK by going to clubs and just talking to them on the forums and eventually going on the decks myself in a club. Many of them super eager to share their knowledge, some were classically trained, and did Master Class series for free on Youtube!

I could go on, but I think most non-STEM degrees, and even the ones that don't require physical labs like Math or CS, can be moved to an Online model saving the resources for those that do require Laboratories and guided lectures and office hours for experimental designs and Scientific Journal publications.

I'm sorry to say but if you go to University to study Classics, Theology or Music Theory (or any of the Arts really) you really are doing yourself a great disservice if Knowledge is your real aim as so many more opportunities exists outside of academia. And you aren't stifled by a curriculum that forces you to limit your breadth or understanding of a subject in order to fit a paradigm of what pretty amounts to a churn system trying to maximize its profit model to the detriment of what an Education should be.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#237

Post by iguy »

blablabla123 wrote: post #220
funcDropShadow wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point here, however, is what University is for all people Traditionally, that was not true and still is not true in places like Germany. A university is the place where you can get the highest education of a field, or ideally where you study a field on your own. Both requires a lot of prerequisites that not everybody fulfills. I am talking about knowledge, ability to learn although something is not flashy, and…

> Replacing universities with a netflix-esque experience may seem attractive to students, but is doomed to fail to train students To be honest, for very mathematical subjects the lectures are almost useless. Exercises and practicing is what gives insights, determines the grades and tells which part of the lecture is actually important. I'd be curious how it is in other subjects, like literature or history. But I assu…

> lectures are almost useless. Exercises and practicing is what gives insights

And community -- both the other students, and the professors. To motivate each other, and to calibrate expectations, and to fill holes in each others' knowledge. That seems like the big (academic) reason to be physically on campus, and ideally at a selective place.

My impression is that the same would be true of (say) history, but I don't really know.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#238

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

lodi wrote: post #171
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “debate” on racism was lost a long time ago. I would hope it’s well understood it’s a net negative for society. I don’t think debating it over and over again as if there’s merit to racist ideas is remotely a good idea. It’s like letting the flat earthers continue to teach science classes even though we know the earth is round.

> I would hope it’s well understood... [that racism is]... a net negative for society. Sure, but there are many racism-adjacent topics that are not so clear cut. For example, affirmative action is a "racist"--in the sense of discriminating based on race--policy, but there are serious, intellectual arguments made both for and against it. I put "racist" in quotes there because there's also presently a debate on the cha…

I was referring to OP's point that there's somehow a equal place for racism and anti-racism in debate. Conversations about race are difficult because inherently racist people are like a bad faith blackhole.

Also, I would love to see a single example of serious flat earther changing their mind.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#239

Post by Item_Boring »

blablabla123 wrote: post #220
funcDropShadow wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point here, however, is what University is for all people Traditionally, that was not true and still is not true in places like Germany. A university is the place where you can get the highest education of a field, or ideally where you study a field on your own. Both requires a lot of prerequisites that not everybody fulfills. I am talking about knowledge, ability to learn although something is not flashy, and…

> Replacing universities with a netflix-esque experience may seem attractive to students, but is doomed to fail to train students To be honest, for very mathematical subjects the lectures are almost useless. Exercises and practicing is what gives insights, determines the grades and tells which part of the lecture is actually important. I'd be curious how it is in other subjects, like literature or history. But I assu…

While I agree that exercises etc. are the way to deeply understand the subject I disagree with your take that math lectures are senseless. I admittedly always struggled when I skipped lectures and attending them helped me to see the “bigger connections” and actually understand proofs given I was taking notes throughout the lecture.

In philosophy however - which for me this semester is entirely online without any video chat whatever interaction - the in person lectures were highly valuable to me due to their nature on heavily relying on discussion. While I do have a paper here and there to write my understanding mostly comes from attending the lectures.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#240

Post by tech-historian »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #215
tech-historian wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH, college for me was about finding myself as a person. Being away from home for 4 years, I grew so much as a human being in numerous and incalculable ways. Being grouped with thousands of others I've never met before -- you learn "human" skills in a way that can't be taught online. Online education is great and all, but the crowd that argues that it is the end-all-be-all of learning is missing a key element of the…

for the amount of money you probably spent, there are a dozen better ways of "finding yourself." I think about how much I spent over those 4 years. I could have travelled around the world during that time and come out of it with a much richer experience.

Education does cost too much, definitely. But in my case it led directly to a stable career path in ways that traveling the world could not. It set me up for life.
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