Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 298 posts

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#161

Post by Siira »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

This experience is highly atypical. You can’t get this just by “treating” it differently. The current bullshit situation is a stable Nash equilibrium. Of course, if you should have certain advantages, you could sacrifice those and change your payoffs.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#163

Post by mountainboot »

carlinmack wrote: post #107
xvedejas wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessary to attend university to learn things you didn't know existed, or to learn things that seem less important in the moment. Whenever I've taught myself something out of interest, when I've seriously set aside time to explore a topic, it's not hard at all to expose oneself to many new concepts. This is assuming the field has a wealth of literature to read, and CS is one of those fields. Whether you hav…

maybe so, but there is a certain level of self-discipline and privilege needed to be able to study just from books. Lots of people on CS and other courses want friendly exposure to new ideas, not a recommendation of a list of text books

Going to university requires more privilege than learning from a book.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#164

Post by Miraste »

dougmwne wrote: post #127
_curious_ wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you view the ability to study and learn from books as a privilege?

Standard teacher education says that each student has a learning style that is most effective for them. https://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/ A person who learns well from books in a solitary setting is at a huge advantage compared to someone who needs a social-kinesthetic style.

Although "learning styles" are widely believed by teachers, there's no evidence that they affect learning. They're basically horoscopes--vague enough to make sense on an intuitive level, but false [0]. In practice, tailoring lessons to this belief reduces effectiveness [1].

[0] https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/the-myth...

[1] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/05/learning-sty...

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#165

Post by growlist »

weston wrote: post #128
mikece wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the benefits of a college setting would be the gathering together of young intelligent people and exposing them not only to new ideas but how to evaluate, value, and compare ideas for their relative worth. I wonder how much open and free debate of ideas even exists anymore, having given way to the inculcation and indoctrination of "correct ideas." I have long believed that the best way to eradicate racism is t…

You’re making the incorrect assumption that racists are arguing in good faith and are willing to change their minds after a well thought out intellectual, level-headed discussion. But history has shown us this almost never happens. The majority of them are basing their hatred on emotion and not rationality. Instead, racists use their platforms to intimidate at-risk minority groups and intimidate them into silence. Wh…

I assume you include anti-white racism? Because there seems to be a lot of it about at the moment.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#166

Post by viktor4006094 »

burntoutfire wrote: post #60
dougmwne wrote: post #16

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

Here in Poland there's a split between Computer Science (mostly lots of theory and fundamentals) and Software Engineering, which gives you some of those as well, but also prepares you for a typical programming job in a typical company.

It's the same here in Sweden. We have degrees called Högskoleingenjör (which is three years) and Civilingenjör (which is five years) that put more focus on practical and industry-relevant courses than the more science-focused Bachelor of Science and Master of Science programs do.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#167

Post by coliveira »

funcDropShadow wrote: post #135
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your specific experience is great, and I'm glad for you. The point here, however, is what University is for all people, not just for individual cases like yours where things align nicely, and where maybe your own character and personality (and some of your professors and class mates) helped you get a meaningful experience out of it. My personal opinion is that the article is mostly right about what doesn't make sense…

> The point here, however, is what University is for all people Traditionally, that was not true and still is not true in places like Germany. A university is the place where you can get the highest education of a field, or ideally where you study a field on your own. Both requires a lot of prerequisites that not everybody fulfills. I am talking about knowledge, ability to learn although something is not flashy, and…

The problem in the US (as opposed to Germany) is that the barrier is not ability, but money. Wealthy families will easily place their kids on some of the greatest universities, while a poor kid needs to be a genius to go to a place like Princeton, or else will have to enter into loads of debt to have a decent education at a state university.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#168

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

I sometimes miss putting on a CD and listening to the whole thing. Not every album is good for that, of course. And I can do that just as easily with any media player. Something about the physical media made me more likely to listen to the whole album, though.

I was a student in a Physics class in the mid-nineties that used connected HP calculators to periodically survey the class to get a quick handle on everybody's understanding of the material. I was a student in another class where the lectures were recorded, and once in a while if the professor was out of town, a TA would roll in a VCR cart, and we'd watch the lecture. It was interesting to watch new technology get adopted with very different approaches and outcomes.

Now we have K-12 classrooms using iClicker and there are open source solutions like https://github.com/qlicker/qlicker. This, to me, is one of the better potential uses of technology: helping educational professionals customize curriculum and pace.

We recently moved to a school district where there has been an investment in developing curriculum. It has been a learning experience for me as a parent to see how this can widen the subjects a student can cover, and the depth they can go into. It's not obvious, nor is it easily measurable, so I fear it is an easy target during budget discussions. Examples include units on it being ok to fail/take risks (I forget if this was 2nd or 3rd grade), using the bee bot (https://www.robot-advance.com/EN/actualite-beebot-educationa...) to teach teamwork and problem solving at a young age, and using Google Slides to create presentations about subjects like the weather.

As a parent of a 3rd grader and 6th grader, I see the differences between the educational approaches for the different ages, how people learn, etc. I'm in agreement with the author of the article that I'm looking forward to see how technology is integrated in such a way that it accelerates/improves education, without removing some of the intangible benefits of collaboration, etc.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#169

Post by jimhefferon »

dougmwne wrote: post #16

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

When Netflix appeared, more movie watching happend. When MP3's appeared, more music got listened to. But when my school broke for COVID, the amount that got learned dropped sharply. I teach at a college but my wife teaches at a high school and it was the same there also.

OK, maybe instructors are not up on what to do; for sure, I'm not. Maybe it is that the tech is not there yet; it all seems to me to be so static. But perhaps also the great majority of 18, 20, and 22 year olds aren't going to learn the same amount of material if they are at home also working at Target than if they are on campus with someone teaching them. I'll venture that certainly people who have significant socioeconomic and cognitive struggles are going to do worse in a climate where they are on their own. So I worry a lot about what would replace in-person college.

The top post about how a person can make and do wonderful things is ... wonderful. But very, very few people will do it. Not disparaging that poster at all, in fact quite the opposite, just making a historical observation.

> So that leaves the on campus experience, which I personally think is amazing. ... The new ideas from the classes are just a small part of the new ideas you get exposed to from other students and campus events. Plus with the increasing independence, it's a great gentle introduction to adulthood.

Yes, it is great to be given space to grow.

> employers often look for the degree

Yes, having access to a good job is an important part of what people need to get. Of course, there are other things. Some understanding of civic responsibility comes to mind in the current climate, for instance.

Even if we just focus on work, say with a CS degree, evidence to employers that candidates passed being expected to write well in a political science class, to understand something about data in a statistics class, and to have an overview of their field of speciality in a theory class, are things that they may be glad they have in an employee a decade from now. I get that many employers may be looking to what they need now, but I'm only saying that it is not dopey for at least some of them to be thinking along those lines.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#170

Post by wetpaws »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #106
turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

Your specific experience is great, and I'm glad for you. The point here, however, is what University is for all people, not just for individual cases like yours where things align nicely, and where maybe your own character and personality (and some of your professors and class mates) helped you get a meaningful experience out of it. My personal opinion is that the article is mostly right about what doesn't make sense…

>is what University is for all people

I guess this is a problem of all people, then. You have a perfect opportunity of free time, networking and connection with your peers, if you are not leveraging it it's your own fault.

Post reply on HN