Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers • Hacker News Board

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#241

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

thewhitetulip wrote: post #68

Arnt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Paper bags don't add up to much. The Indians use vast numbers of small bags. I weighed a paper bag I got some fruit in just now, 7g. Divide by x to compensate for realistic recycling. A tree weighs several million grams. Not all of it becomes paper, but still, one tree is a lot of 7g bags. Adding to that: Once the paper is burned or rots, the route back to a new tree is fairly short. Not like plastic, which forms…

On top of that, these days paper isn't manufactured by cutting down forests we have more eco friendly ways of manufacturing paper, in and out of India

[deleted]

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#242

Post by ryanianian » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

Slippery_John wrote: post #232

ryanianian wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision to use glass as the de-facto re-usable container medium has always driven me nuts. I think the "marketing" is that it's slightly "harder" (mentally) to throw away a nice glass bottle than it is a plastic container because we've been so conditioned to throw out the plastic ones. I've long wondered why retailers don't offer a "refill" option for items like milk and liquid cleaning products. The bottles for…

Some detergent makers actually do sell refill bags that use far less plastic. There's also been a resurgence of milkmen in London and some other places, where you leave out your empty bottles and get a refill. While there aren't milkpeople where I live, there are a few places where I can pay a deposit on a glass bottle and then exchange it for a full bottle whenever I need. It's not widespread by any means, but it is…

The re-usable detergent bags are nice, and many countries do distribute milk in thin plastic bags that you then empty into a pitcher at home.

But as parent points out, exchanging glass bottles isn't really better for the environment (in terms of CO2) as compared to properly disposing of plastic. No real reason why those deposit+refill bottles need to be glass; they could just as well be quality plastic and reduce some transport-weight. Similarly having a guy driving a truck around to deliver heavy liquids seems inefficient when you could just as well bring all your plastic bottle back to the store at one time and refill from big tanks there.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#243

Post by 7Z7 » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

scotchmi_st wrote: post #207

state_less wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as plastics are disposed responsibly in ways that don't damage plants and animals, what's the issue? Please don't discount one of the biggest issues though. I've told folks their plastic bottle is about to blow away (overlooking lands end, right over the ocean). The person picks it up, walks a bit further up the trail and throw it in the bushes. I've had folks throw their cigarette butt on the side of the r…

You're referring to anecdotes. Maybe the sort of behaviour is widespread, but even if it is, you then need to prove it's having much of an impact on the environment, and even then it's a drop in the ocean compared with the damage done via climate change and water consumption. We need to get out of our parochial ideas about waste. Plastics are aesthetically bad, but other forces are quantitatively way worse.

>Plastics are aesthetically bad..

In many parts of the ocean we are way past aesthetics.

73% of Deep-Sea Fish Have Ingested Plastic: > https://www.ecowatch.com/plastics-deep-sea-fish-2536726086.h...

Whale Died Of Starvation After Eating 80 Plastic Bags Off Thailand's Coast: > https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/06/04/whale-die...

All UK mussels contain plastic and other contaminants, study finds: > https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/mussels-plastic-mi...

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#244

Post by gianpaj » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #220

jdietrich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

The decision to use glass as the de-facto re-usable container medium has always driven me nuts. I think the "marketing" is that it's slightly "harder" (mentally) to throw away a nice glass bottle than it is a plastic container because we've been so conditioned to throw out the plastic ones. I've long wondered why retailers don't offer a "refill" option for items like milk and liquid cleaning products. The bottles for…

In Ukraine, there is a big French supermarket chain called Ашан (auchan.ua), in which people can buy liquid cleaning products by the volume. For example, if you need a litre for dishwashing cleaning soap, you can go and pull a lever and fill an appropriate size plastic bottle. It's their own brand and it's very cheap. I'm not 100% sure if you can bring and use any plastic bottle, or you have first get it from them.

They also have huge crates of pasta and other grains where you can simply shove how much you want into a plastic bag, weight it and pay at the till.

No need to wrap those items in boxes and more containers.

While Ukraine has many environmental problems (it's not easy or common to recycle, large % of uneducated population about these issues), it has some good ideas and policies like these.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#245

Post by bladecatcher » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #231

hammock wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bioplastic (PLA) is biodegradable in a commercial facility, unlike petroleum-based bottle plastic (PET)

The key point being that someone has to get the bottle back to the facility instead of throwing it in the trash, or worse, littering.

That's true, but bioplastics degrade on timelines that are magnitudes smaller than actual plastic.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#246

Post by hw » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:47 PM UTC

vishaltelangre wrote: post #105

Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. I agree that "we", the people need to…

"Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away."

I don't think this is going away until cities and states and government start doing something about this. Plastic bag banning is great, but it doesn't solve the entire equation. Plastic wrapping is just too convenient and preserves the lifetime of the product better than, say, paper. The transluscency of plastics also make it ideal for packaging food like meat, sushi, iced drinks, bread etc where being able to see the product is important. It also keeps in liquids nicely.

Someone needs to come up with an alternative to plastic that's biodegradable while still keeping plastic's properties that make it useful for packaging. I think that's going to be a huge industry. Landfills in my city are filling up and we're resorting to shipping some out to other cities. People like their plastic but yet complain when the city garbage rates go up every year.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#247

Post by wewake » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

One must acknowledge that there's no such thing as "ban" in India given the numerous past records of people not obliging to regulations set by the govt.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#248

Post by hw » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

tonyarkles wrote: post #155

narag wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understood. Do you suggest that everybody carries their own cutlery to restaurants? Why? What's the relation with disposable stuff? Can't (don't most) restaurants have their own reusable stuff? I like plastic banning, as soon as it's in place all around, we'll see another non-contaminant material (only a little more expensive) replacing plastic.

Cutlery I would imagine being for takeout food, or fast food where there’s often plastic cutlery (around here at least). Even when dining in, though, my wife and I have been trying to remember to bring our own Tupperware containers for bring home any leftovers, instead of using the typical provided styrofoam packaging.

I don't quite understand why plastic cutlery for takeout food is necessary. Maybe if you're bringing it back to your office for lunch where you don't have access to cutlery (although you could always bring your own). I see families taking out food for home where they have cutlery and yet they take the plastic cutlery from the restaurants. It's ridiculous and it just highlights how humans value the convenience of just eating with plastic cutlery and throwing it away after eating, over the environment

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#249

Post by hw » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

narag wrote: post #13

makecheck wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It needs to become fashionable to basically carry lots of reusable stuff with you. We “sort of” have this for coffee containers and shopping bags but it would be good if people could also always carry a metal fork, plate, cup, and even a reusable napkin at all times. It’s one of those things that would remain weird if only a few people did it but wouldn’t be weird if most people did. It would also require eating esta…

Not sure I understood. Do you suggest that everybody carries their own cutlery to restaurants? Why? What's the relation with disposable stuff? Can't (don't most) restaurants have their own reusable stuff? I like plastic banning, as soon as it's in place all around, we'll see another non-contaminant material (only a little more expensive) replacing plastic.

I've seen restaurants where they serve most of their food in plastic containers even for dine in customers. Most poke places for example always use a plastic bowl that patrons just throw away after they're done, along with plastic cutlery. Some restaurants serve water in cups with a plastic straw, which is also totally unnecessary.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#250

Post by davidhyde » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

hw wrote: post #246

vishaltelangre wrote: post #105

Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. I agree that "we", the people need to…

"Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away." I don't think this is going away until cities and states and government start doing something about this. Plastic bag banning is great, but it…

You can already buy bags made from plant material (tuber and tapioca is popular). The fact that they are 3x the price and less durable than petroleum-based bags is probably because they have seen less research and mass production. This can change. I use them to chuck out the cat litter.