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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

500hats.com

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#241

Post by greglindahl »

briandear wrote: post #28
voidhorse wrote: post #11

This just feels like an save-face operation. If these fellas want to show their commitment to changing it will require two things in my opinion: 1. A prolonged period of time without further incident. 2. Perhaps some dedicated effort to supporting, monetarily or otherwise, the elimination of this sort of behavior at the structural level? Start a campaign against sexism/harassment or something? Though to make it not a…

Does a campaign really accomplish anything? Campaigns just seem like a lot of virtue signaling without any actual substance. How about organizations simply deal with the problem? When there is a complaint, investigate it. If it’s legitimate, discipline the perpetrator. If it’s an unfounded or malicious claim, discipline the accuser. It’s interesting how SV makes the news for this but sexual harassment/sleeping to the…

A campaign to change company HR policies can actually accomplish something. HR policies set expectations. All companies have a policy against dating within the chain of command. I bet that in the future, a lot of companies are also going to have language about not starting relationships with suppliers, customers, investors, etc. Given all of the mess with conferences, that could use a little policy, too...

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#242

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

TylerE wrote: post #107
orthoganol wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

Classic non-apology apology. "I'm sorry you were offended".

This is bullshit. This is a lead paragraph:

I made advances towards multiple women in work-related situations, where it was clearly inappropriate. I put people in compromising and inappropriate situations, and I selfishly took advantage of those situations where I should have known better. My behavior was inexcusable and wrong.

There isn't any equivocating there. Dave acknowledged what he did was wrong, and took responsibility. I'm not saying he's some sort of great guy for apologizing, and he deserves to face the consequences of his actions. I am arguing that if people sincerely acknowledge their mistakes, and take steps to make amends, demands of "you're apologizing too much/not enough/wrong" are just vengeance and are not actually going to fix the problem in the long run.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#243

Post by grecy »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #152
grecy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It was over drinks and I thought it was social" It is horrifying that world leaders and public figures use this kind of excuse, which is supposed to somehow give a pass, and then we see it trickle down to the man on the street. Really, the public figures should be prosecuted and made an example of, so that is the example for the average man. Anything less is unacceptable.

What's more horrifying, that people are human and make mistakes, or that if you're "important" what would normally be one-off mistakes forgotten and buried become career-defining events thanks to the collective shaming capacity of the internet.

>people are human and make mistakes

Our legal system is not forgiving of people that make mistakes.

"I accidentally fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone" = manslaughter = prison.

What this person did is very wrong, and everyone who does it should be punished, regardless of their obscurity/fame.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#245

Post by treehau5 »

arkades wrote: post #237
Xunxi wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, figuring out the ends sorts out the means. There have also been instances where the other party recoils and indicts the proposal. It is the reality of life even though some might disagree. Nonetheless, workplace relationship is emotionally dicey and avoiding it is a safer bet.

> Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, You're part of the problem.

This is a useless reply, and it has become pervasive. Technically anyone not a part of the solution is part of the problem. Instead maybe clarify on what you find objectionable to help everyone out, including parent.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#246

Post by macspoofing »

arkades wrote: post #237
Xunxi wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, figuring out the ends sorts out the means. There have also been instances where the other party recoils and indicts the proposal. It is the reality of life even though some might disagree. Nonetheless, workplace relationship is emotionally dicey and avoiding it is a safer bet.

> Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, You're part of the problem.

In what way is OP 'part of the problem'? If the other party wishes to also pursue a romantic relationship - what's the problem?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#247

Post by jhall1468 »

jackmott wrote: post #207
theWatcher37 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it won't be enough, it won't be seen as positive, and like half the comments in this thread show once you're outed as a PC heretic you're a non-entity. Read through the smarmy "he doesn't mean it" comments all over this thread to see what I mean. This culture is toxic in the tech community and needs to stop.

The culture of being being mad at sexual harassment offenders even when they apologize is what is toxic in the tech community. ok

Sexual harrasment? What he did was unethical, immoral and objectively wrong, sexual harrasment is a crime. This wasn't a crime.

I'm sure, as a perfect individual you've never done anything unethical or immoral. As such, your "never forgive" attitude is perfectly justifiable.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#248

Post by naiveattack »

From linked nytimes:

> Many of the women also said they believed they had limited ability to push back against inappropriate behavior, often because they needed funding, a job or other help.

> Lindsay Meyer in her home in San Francisco. She said a venture capitalist groped and kissed her. “I felt like I had to tolerate it because this is the cost of being a nonwhite female founder,” she said.

> They put up with the comments, Ms. Renock said, because they “couldn’t imagine a world in which that $500,000 wasn’t on the table anymore.”

Without reducing blame on the perpetrators:

As someone who loves women as he loves his fellow man, I would say

Women out there, don't morally bankrupt yourselves just to get something that you want! We need you to be better than that.

Let's create a world with better women, nay people, who are morally upright!

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#249

Post by mrmcd »

I wish there was a way to give imaginary internet upvote points to all the people who didn't act like harassing shitheads, but I guess we're stuck with giving them to this asshole, who whines about "this isn't who I am!" and "I invested in so many of my LGBTQ friends!" months or years afterwords when finally called out on it.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#250

Post by jhall1468 »

TylerE wrote: post #150
theWatcher37 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic self righteous morality police. "He didn't apologize good enough!"

Self righteous? I didn't make any value judgement. Just called it a bullshit apology.

So.... literal a judgement not based on objective data, but a subjective interpretation of the meaning behind his words.

Totally not a value judgement.

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