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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#101

Post by mabbo »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

There's what's legally required, and there's what's morally required. Here's a guy who did some serious soul-searching and said "holy shit, maybe I'm wrong on a very bad way". It's about doing more than what he is bare minimum allowed to get away with.

He's taking personal responsibility for his actions, openly and publicly. That takes a level of maturity and openness that I know is hard, and I fully respect.

All that he missed, in my opinion, is what his next steps are, and how going forward he can assure that this won't happen again. It sounds like he does have plans, but a good apology goes "I was wrong; here's why/how I was wrong; here's what I'm going to do in the future so that I don't repeat the mistake".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#102

Post by dbg31415 »

superplussed wrote: post #78
dbg31415 wrote: post #57

A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work. It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...) S…

Power inbalance man, that's the point.

There's always power imbalances though. Social, knowledge, financial... can you only hit on people whose looks are on par with your own, and who have the same amount of money you do, and same education, same experience, knowledge, social network... blah blah. Always going to be a power imbalance of some sort between people.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#103

Post by [deleted] »

sotojuan wrote: post #83
[deleted] wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> Why should he "control" his hormones to begin with? Because he's in a work/professional setting. > What's so inappropriate in being confident enough to tell another person that you're attracted to them? Nothing, if at a party, bar, or social event where people meet. In an interview at your company? Give me a break.

[deleted]

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#104

Post by ben_jones »

Aron wrote: post #91

Loses his job. Major strike on his career. National public shaming. I'm gonna click the link and go see what murderous crime he committed.

We send people to jail for decades for selling weed. Our sense of justice in this country is perverted. I honestly believe many people would support imprisonment, ostracization, or worse, for this person instead of rehab or similar paths.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#105

Post by nnfy »

jmcgough wrote: post #73
nnfy wrote: post #43

It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech. This does create an incentive for women to play a little loose with their professional behavior, and we only see one side of the story here. No, I don't mean to excuse McClure's behavior entirely; however, the fact that many of these women did not immediately cease contact after innapropriate advanc…

Yes, you are victim blaming. You are immediately assuming with no evidence that she's some kind of conniving she-devil. They are not in tech. They are in venture capital, and it's more challenging to get a position at a VC firm than it is to get a job at a startup as an engineer.

I am not assuming anything. In fact it is ironically the opposite, people are assuming that McClure is some kind of he-devil.

The truth is likely much murkier. But because of the power imbalance, in our culture we are more critical of McClure.

Also I'm speaking in general terms. Sexual favors are nothing new, regardless of whether you feel they are ethical.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#106

Post by BoiledCabbage »

nnfy wrote: post #43

It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech. This does create an incentive for women to play a little loose with their professional behavior, and we only see one side of the story here. No, I don't mean to excuse McClure's behavior entirely; however, the fact that many of these women did not immediately cease contact after innapropriate advanc…

> It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech.

And again this comes up every single time. Just because someone is lonely didn't mean they're entitled to sexually harass someone else. Nor does being horny justify it. Nor does being angry justify violence.

Similarly the fact they have to now choose between throwing away financial opportunity or acquiesce to this harassment is exactly why there is a law there protecting people from it. In part, it's illegal to put people in a position where they have to make that choice.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#107

Post by TylerE »

orthoganol wrote: post #75
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

Classic non-apology apology. "I'm sorry you were offended".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#108

Post by aluhut »

aortega wrote: post #87
chasing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: You don't have the right to be creepy or predatory towards women just because alcohol is involved. Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed.

> Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed. Yes but you have to understand that we humans have a incredible high drive to reproduce, and many successful couples forms in the work environment. I have a child with a coworker. Sexual approaches do happen in those kinds of environments but there are a big difference between approaching someone and sexually harassment. Moder…

Dangerous ground. I would expect contra in form of "mansplaining" or "justification of harassment".

I came to the conclusion that the topic has become too toxic to be discussed seriously. Especially based on a actual case. I just hope this electrified field will return to a base where everybody can talk seriously about it. With the aim being a solution that is appropriate to what we are as humans not as man or woman (or all those other genders...).

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