Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 321 posts

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#241

Post by losteric »

DickingAround wrote: post #205
losteric wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about option C: none of the above. I think it ultimately boils down to civic engagement , or lack thereof. Democracy is not a state of being, it is a system that requires perpetual participation to maintain. Casting a vote every 4, 2, or even every year is not engagement. Participating in the primaries is minimum engagement. Yet for the past 20 years American voter turnout for Presidential elections has held ste…

I don't think we can ever expect that level of engagement. People don't engage because the ROI just isn't there. When America first became independent it was a much smaller body; their votes and conversations mattered. I did some calcs once and it would have been like voting along with 4 sq miles of Chicago. Now, voting with tens or hundreds of millions of others, there's just no incentive to be involved. It might be…

I used the term "debt" very intentionally. You're talking about return on investment... I'm saying we aren't invested, we're in debt. We must pay back the debt before we see any returns.

No one's going to wave a magic wand and fix America. It took decades of apathy to get here, it's going to take years of work to clean up this mess and regain control.

We have to start with this year's local elections, and next year's midterms.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#242

Post by int_19h »

thehardsphere wrote: post #207
int_19h wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is baity, but the article makes a point that this thing is expanding rapidly in terms of number of participating employers. That part is news. And there are certainly implications specifically wrt the Trump administration, and protests against it.

The implications with the Trump administration are no different than those under the Obama administration, when all of this expanding actually began accelerating as the NGI system was implemented.

The potential for abuse is the same, yes. The way this is likely to actually be abused is a whole different ballpark.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#243

Post by CaptSpify »

GavinMcG wrote: post #73
CaptSpify wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've already lost when an arrest is equivalent to a conviction. source on that?

I think it was pretty obvious that it was an evaluation the commenter was making, not something that came from another source. That makes me wonder whether you were being sincere in your response, and if not, what you thought you were contributing.

I'm contributing skepticism. How many arrests statistically lead to convictions? I suspect it's high, but if it's not, then his statement is untrue. I also don't see how it's obvious that was his intent, as I obviously don't see it as meaning that.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#244

Post by benjaminjackman »

lettergram wrote: post #78
drawkbox wrote: post #28

Protesting peacefully is an American right, this will be a list of real patriots. However, this is a bit scary. Corporations have become the brownshirts and we are inching towards a one-party authoritarian system like China it seems. Unfortunately the divide and conquer strategy of the two party system in the US makes people honor party over country and this is a problem. The only solution is to be more independent.…

Kinda funny this comes from Thomas Jefferson, as he had a famous feud with John Adams

Well they did patch things a few years after Jefferson's presidency ended. So much so that Adams' last words were "Jefferson still survives." And oddly enough, he was mistaken, Jefferson had actually died 5 hours earlier on the same day, July 4th, 1826.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#245

Post by pvg »

anigbrowl wrote: post #219
pvg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's still nowhere close to Fascism, 'absolute' or otherwise. Fascists beat, imprisoned and killed protesters and dissenters. They didn't engage in niceties like 'your protesting might impact your job at an airport'.

Of course they did, read a history book. As for the more kinetic style of fascism, I refer you to the student show at a protest at the University of Washington about 10 days ago: http://q13fox.com/2017/01/24/shooter-sent-facebook-message-t...

Are you telling me to read a history book? That's in the 'did you read the article' category of rude. The OP claim is utter hyperbole. The thing you linked is titled "Shooter sent Facebook message". How was the government involved in this?

Edit: I'll try to put it more clearly. Fascism is a real thing that really happened and killed real people. Claiming it as your own over some stupid shit that does neither and you disagree with (hell, I probably disagree with) is despicable. Please don't.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#246

Post by awfgylbcxhrey »

DickingAround wrote: post #213
awfgylbcxhrey wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with the government as large as it currently is, I just want more of the stuff I like (infrastructure development, education, regulation enforcement, healthcare) and less of what I don't (overzealous law enforcement and military action, banks of federal lawyers creating fourth branches of government).

I'm afraid that isn't one of our choices. Everyone seems to have different view of what is 'right'. So unless you want to be bulldozed when your view doesn't happen to be a majority.. it's a choice really between small or big.

Well, everyone has a different view of what is big or small, so your position is just as invalid.

That said, I never said "right". I was quite clear about what facets of government I value (civil rights, transportation and social infrastructure) and what I don't like (war machine, fascist law enforcement). Oddly enough, there are political parties in line with that, so your unsubstantiated assertion that I don't get that choice is pretty ridiculous.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#247

Post by dragonwriter »

leereeves wrote: post #209
pmorici wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet some of the people on the list will have brown hair too.

The point being, it would be easy to end up with a witchhunt against a company for firing a couple bad employees who had also been arrested, even if the arrests had nothing to do with their dismissal.

You mean, just like the original list promotes further punishment of people who are victims of baseless arrests that don't even support prosecution much less conviction?

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#248

Post by RhodaLs »

rdtsc wrote: post #150
RhodaLs wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd strongly disagree. Occupy didn't result in direct action or changes. However, it popularized the notion of the One Percent vs. Ninety-Nine Percent, and got people to think about class in a nation very averse to even acknowledging the existence of economic classes. Probably had a positive impact in terms of helping Obama get re-elected, since Obama was lucky enough to get a seemingly clueless one-percenter as an o…

> Occupy didn't result in direct action or changes. That was my point. It had as goals to limit the influence of corporations on politics, more balanced distribution of income, more and better jobs, bank reforms. I can see maybe the secondary effects of electing Obama, so agree with that. Interestingly did Obama do much in regard to those issues. There was student dept forgiveness thing, that might be a claim. ACA mi…

Protests also help in building awareness. In that regard, Occupy was a huge success. Overnight, people and mainstream media were suddenly talking about class.

Also, I think it planted the seed in a way. There were huge protests around the start of the Iraq War, but those failed in part because they were mostly ignored by the media. Occupy found a way to get the media to pay attention, and used social media outlets as a way to engage people whether or not they showed up in person. The Women's March probably would have been a success if Occupy hadn't occurred, but I think Occupy did a lot in terms of making people in the US think protesting was viable in terms of getting attention, and thus the Women's March, and all the following protests, had a leg up because of it.

Tahrir Square / Arab Spring should also get some credit too, since they created the framework Occupy followed.

Here's a quick link about the LGBT executive order and how it failed:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/ivanka-trump-jared-kus...

I can't prove it, but I suspect the rapid response of protesters played a factor in shelving the order, based on the large numbers who hit the streets and airports shortly after the immigration ban was announced. The LGBT EO would have produced an even larger response.

At any rate, if you haven't already looked at the Women's March or Indivisible's or Planned Parenthood's sites or Facebook pages, I highly recommend you do. I'm quite impressed and heartened at the ways they're keeping people engaged. Little daily actions that anyone can do such as calling your Senator. Turning the protest highs into concrete action.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#249

Post by tnone »

legodt wrote: post #136
mjolk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting a left-wing form of McCarthyism. I don't care if my employees/reports protest as long as they do their job and don't attempt political intimidation, but I am not willing to put my company on a list to satisfy a virtue-signaling busybody.

Fellow commentors, please be aware that "virtue signalling" is a buzzword used by the alt-right to discredit activists or socially progressive people. This tactic is meant to dissuade the socially progressive from actively taking a role in enacting change.

No, signaling in this context is a term referring to conspicuous behavior meant to substitute a difficult to prove characteristic (e.g. being a principled person acting morally) with an easy to perform ritual (e.g. sharing opinions with like-minded followers on Twitter).

Not everyone who dislikes this behavior is alt right, or rightwing at all. Stop focusing on the scape goat that's easy to dislike.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#250

Post by tnone »

RhodaLs wrote: post #125
rdtsc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The message here is clear: Don't protest or you might lose your job. I think the real message is even more troubling. "Don't protest because it probably won't do anything". Since the late 60's when did protests work as a an effective tactic in US? We've had anti-war protests for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've had Occupy Wall Street, we've had protests against Trump. Have they advanced the cause? I am afraid not. I thi…

I'd strongly disagree. Occupy didn't result in direct action or changes. However, it popularized the notion of the One Percent vs. Ninety-Nine Percent, and got people to think about class in a nation very averse to even acknowledging the existence of economic classes. Probably had a positive impact in terms of helping Obama get re-elected, since Obama was lucky enough to get a seemingly clueless one-percenter as an o…

Strange how this new awareness about class lead to identity politics becoming the left's focus for the subsequent campaigns and activism efforts, resulting in a president who ran purely on her own gender losing to one who ran on economic grounds...

The Women's March was just more of the poison posing as a cure. Yes, they had a big showing, but like Occupy before it, it's entirely coopted by progressive side issues and the professional rabble rousers who need them to persist for their meal ticket. Just look at what's happening to the science march.

Post reply on HN