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FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

theintercept.com

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Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#201

Post by griffinmmahon »

coderdude wrote: post #191
griffinmmahon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in order to curtail other's free speech ... by calling it protesting It's not about free speech. He incites harassment.

Make no mistake, this was absolutely about shutting people up that they don't agree with. The harassment we're actually seeing in any tangible form is coming from the rioters.

>shutting people up that they don't agree with

Yes, but people are allowed to do that. I don't think "free speech" means what you think it means. It's a comforting idea that other people are too immature/emotional/dumb to consciously think about an opposing belief, but that wasn't the case here. There's no obligation to hear out a side that would do you harm given the choice. w/r/t letting people say unpopular things, the university did decide to host him in the first place, which represents the university's commitment to some form of free speech. Individual people should not be subject to scrutiny for protesting something they disagree with.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#202

Post by int_19h »

thehardsphere wrote: post #175

Maybe it's because I work in biometrics, but I don't understand what is newsworthy about this. The Rap Back program has been around for years now. The article gratuitously mentions the name "Trump" as an extra scare factor, even though NGI and its various depredations were planned since the Dubya administration (not that it matters whose administration it is; this kind of power expansion happens independently of what…

The headline is baity, but the article makes a point that this thing is expanding rapidly in terms of number of participating employers. That part is news.

And there are certainly implications specifically wrt the Trump administration, and protests against it.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#203

Post by thehardsphere »

anorphirith wrote: post #190

am I the only one who doesn't get people who write stupid titles ? let's read this again: "FBI Is Building a Watchlist" ok they're spending time and money to make a surveillance system. "That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees." and they give that system to "companies" so they can track their own employees ?! ?! WTF

They don't "give the system" to employers. The system is part of the FBI's main biometric database. Basically, a small set of employers who have been using this database (which is the same database that all fingerprinted criminals are entered into) for background checks, now can subscribe to get notifications from it if you're arrested sometime after your background check was done.

Yes, it's a clickbaity title, but essentially sort of correct.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#204

Post by kalkin »

ChefDenominator wrote: post #159
kalkin wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rid of social security or making our healthcare system even worse won't do anything to shrink the FBI. A stronger welfare state is compatible with considerably less out-of-control police than we have in the United States; witness anywhere in northern Europe. If you don't want people to laugh at your principles, maybe don't immediately turn a conversation about the security state to an argument that you should…

For the life of me, I can't find any mention of social security, health care, or taxes in GP's comment.

What does "shrink the state" mean, then? Are those not part of the state? If only the FBI or other armed wings of the state are meant, why not say that?

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#205

Post by DickingAround »

losteric wrote: post #194
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

What about option C: none of the above. I think it ultimately boils down to civic engagement , or lack thereof. Democracy is not a state of being, it is a system that requires perpetual participation to maintain. Casting a vote every 4, 2, or even every year is not engagement. Participating in the primaries is minimum engagement. Yet for the past 20 years American voter turnout for Presidential elections has held ste…

I don't think we can ever expect that level of engagement. People don't engage because the ROI just isn't there. When America first became independent it was a much smaller body; their votes and conversations mattered. I did some calcs once and it would have been like voting along with 4 sq miles of Chicago. Now, voting with tens or hundreds of millions of others, there's just no incentive to be involved. It might be a democracy in name, but none of what it does has anything to do with my vote.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#206

Post by aaronblohowiak »

verandaguy wrote: post #156
suprgeek wrote: post #14

Beautiful - Go to protest against Trump (or even to document it [1]) - get arrested and charged with "Rioting", "Disturbing the Peace" or my most favorite "Resisting Arrest[2]" - get an Arrest Record - Get fired immediately thanks to RAP BACK - Charges get dropped. Rinse and repeat. Welcome Absolute Fascism. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-ch... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_con…

Charges get dropped I think I'm missing something; why would the charges get dropped?

Cops aren't lawyers, spurious arrests happen all the time, the standards for what it takes to be arrested are basically suspicion, etc

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#207

Post by thehardsphere »

int_19h wrote: post #202
thehardsphere wrote: post #175

Maybe it's because I work in biometrics, but I don't understand what is newsworthy about this. The Rap Back program has been around for years now. The article gratuitously mentions the name "Trump" as an extra scare factor, even though NGI and its various depredations were planned since the Dubya administration (not that it matters whose administration it is; this kind of power expansion happens independently of what…

The headline is baity, but the article makes a point that this thing is expanding rapidly in terms of number of participating employers. That part is news. And there are certainly implications specifically wrt the Trump administration, and protests against it.

The implications with the Trump administration are no different than those under the Obama administration, when all of this expanding actually began accelerating as the NGI system was implemented.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#208

Post by BurningFrog »

kalkin wrote: post #139
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Getting rid of social security or making our healthcare system even worse won't do anything to shrink the FBI. A stronger welfare state is compatible with considerably less out-of-control police than we have in the United States; witness anywhere in northern Europe. If you don't want people to laugh at your principles, maybe don't immediately turn a conversation about the security state to an argument that you should…

Sweden actually has a much smaller state than the US.

Mostly because it's 10 million people vs 320 million for the US.

Letting the US states handle everything the federal government doesn't have to manage would leave all Americans in a much shrunken state, with just as generous social security, healthcare etc as now.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#209

Post by leereeves »

pmorici wrote: post #91
leereeves wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, maybe some people on the list are also bad employees.

I bet some of the people on the list will have brown hair too.

The point being, it would be easy to end up with a witchhunt against a company for firing a couple bad employees who had also been arrested, even if the arrests had nothing to do with their dismissal.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#210

Post by XorNot »

zanny wrote: post #135
llukas wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrink the state = let rich & corporations get loose. You want to replace kind of power that you got influence on and some expectations about public information access with totally "private" power that you got no control about. That is special kind of stupid. Thank you but no thank you.

This is somewhat where my politics have lead me. The concentration of power, public or private, is the cause of evil and suffering in the world. It can be micro, or macro. It could be a kidnapping victim, or someone stronger than you physically, or it could be corporate influence in legislature biasing the markets against competition, or it could be simple and just be a tyrant dictator demanding compliance in the beh…

Imagine a world where your home owners association is the supreme power of your world. Does that sound functional? Or even pleasant?
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