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FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

theintercept.com

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Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#211

Post by DickingAround »

kalkin wrote: post #139
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Getting rid of social security or making our healthcare system even worse won't do anything to shrink the FBI. A stronger welfare state is compatible with considerably less out-of-control police than we have in the United States; witness anywhere in northern Europe. If you don't want people to laugh at your principles, maybe don't immediately turn a conversation about the security state to an argument that you should…

Good, let's start with the FBI, CIA, NSA, and Military. But don't think for a second that any penny you give to the feds won't accidentally find it's way over there. Social security was originally intended to be separate. And yet now here we are, those funds being drained into the general coffers that go in large measure for war. We say it should be smaller overall because unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to separate the wheat from the chaff on this one. So unless you want this too-big-to-fail system to actually fail one day in a bad way, we just need to make it overall smaller.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#212

Post by JumpCrisscross »

thehardsphere wrote: post #193
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

We need a public watch list of companies who fire, or in any way discipline, employees on this watch list.

Here's one off of the top of my head; it may be very imprecise: 1. Every Bank in the United States of America 2. Every NMLS licensed mortgage lender in USA 3. Every FINRA licensed investment advisor, broker, or trader 4. Eventually, every public school system in the USA. All of these organizations participate because they're required to by law, or through "self-regulation" that's effectively the same as government co…

> Every FINRA licensed investment advisor, broker, or trader

I've worked for, owned and sold broker-dealers. There is nothing stopping you from hiring someone with an unconvicted arrest record.

> what are you going to do with it?

Depends on the size and composition of the list. To make decisions, first one needs the data.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#213

Post by DickingAround »

awfgylbcxhrey wrote: post #155
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

I'm fine with the government as large as it currently is, I just want more of the stuff I like (infrastructure development, education, regulation enforcement, healthcare) and less of what I don't (overzealous law enforcement and military action, banks of federal lawyers creating fourth branches of government).

I'm afraid that isn't one of our choices. Everyone seems to have different view of what is 'right'. So unless you want to be bulldozed when your view doesn't happen to be a majority.. it's a choice really between small or big.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#214

Post by krupan »

DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

"Trust your neighbor a lot more and your government a lot less."

That is the salient piece of this message. If you don't trust your neighbors, why is putting them in powerful positions of government a good idea? If you do trust your neighbors, then we don't need a huge powerful government.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#215

Post by mattnewton »

ihsw wrote: post #102
drawkbox wrote: post #28

Protesting peacefully is an American right, this will be a list of real patriots. However, this is a bit scary. Corporations have become the brownshirts and we are inching towards a one-party authoritarian system like China it seems. Unfortunately the divide and conquer strategy of the two party system in the US makes people honor party over country and this is a problem. The only solution is to be more independent.…

Protesting peacefully != destroying private property and committing unprovoked acts of violence to innocents There's a word for those that use random violence to effect change in society -- terrorists.

The word terrorist apparently means whoever the government disagrees with. Others are rebels, patriots and freedom fighters.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#216

Post by jdavis703 »

DickingAround wrote: post #205
losteric wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about option C: none of the above. I think it ultimately boils down to civic engagement , or lack thereof. Democracy is not a state of being, it is a system that requires perpetual participation to maintain. Casting a vote every 4, 2, or even every year is not engagement. Participating in the primaries is minimum engagement. Yet for the past 20 years American voter turnout for Presidential elections has held ste…

I don't think we can ever expect that level of engagement. People don't engage because the ROI just isn't there. When America first became independent it was a much smaller body; their votes and conversations mattered. I did some calcs once and it would have been like voting along with 4 sq miles of Chicago. Now, voting with tens or hundreds of millions of others, there's just no incentive to be involved. It might be…

What about at the local level? People barely know what their councils and mayors are up to.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#217

Post by rdtsc »

xenadu02 wrote: post #179
rdtsc wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Occupy didn't result in direct action or changes. That was my point. It had as goals to limit the influence of corporations on politics, more balanced distribution of income, more and better jobs, bank reforms. I can see maybe the secondary effects of electing Obama, so agree with that. Interestingly did Obama do much in regard to those issues. There was student dept forgiveness thing, that might be a claim. ACA mi…

Have you ever really thought about the phrase "the revolution will not be televised"? More than anything you must fight apathy. Most people are busy and don't have time to pay attention to politics or get involved. Humans are also social creatures; knowing that you aren't the only one - that you aren't some oddball - makes a huge difference. At some point people start to question their pre-conceived narrative. They s…

> But you can't say protest doesn't matter. It is the first step in changing hearts and minds.

Well I was trying to say that it doesn't work as it used to compared to the Civil Right Movement, Vietnam War, Women's Liberation. Something is off. Maybe it is just my perception. We saw what happened in Ukraine, Arab Spring and other countries. There it seems to work. Here it seems less so.

> Humans are also social creatures; knowing that you aren't the only one - that you aren't some oddball - makes a huge difference.

That's a good point. I hadn't considered it enough. Just knowing you are not alone is great motivator.

> They stop wanting the status quo.

Interestingly, I think that is what changed the election completely. Both Sanders and Trump supporters, especially their energy and enthusiasm, despite the media blackouts and lack of support from major donors like banks and even whole countries, have shown that people stopped wanting the status quo. Sadly the DNC never stopped to re-evaluate how come a relatively unknown old white male, seemed to have gotten so many votes.

> The revolution begins when people's minds are changed. Visible action comes later.

Well voting produces a visible change not that much later, in historic terms it is rather instantaneous.

> Sometimes that "later" is a decade or two when a new generation takes power and decides to do things differently than the generation before.

Wonder if there is a chance now to form a new party. What happened to Sander's supporters. They were all mostly young, very enthusiastic, it seems like now should be the time to give them a voice and harness that energy.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#218

Post by anigbrowl »

DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Oh come on, that's a BS argument in the age of FB and Palantir. Get real instead of ignoring the fact of technology. I have radical ideas about governance but 'shrink the state' is about as sensible as 'force people to be good.'

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#219

Post by anigbrowl »

pvg wrote: post #126
suprgeek wrote: post #14

Beautiful - Go to protest against Trump (or even to document it [1]) - get arrested and charged with "Rioting", "Disturbing the Peace" or my most favorite "Resisting Arrest[2]" - get an Arrest Record - Get fired immediately thanks to RAP BACK - Charges get dropped. Rinse and repeat. Welcome Absolute Fascism. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-ch... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_con…

No, that's still nowhere close to Fascism, 'absolute' or otherwise. Fascists beat, imprisoned and killed protesters and dissenters. They didn't engage in niceties like 'your protesting might impact your job at an airport'.

Of course they did, read a history book. As for the more kinetic style of fascism, I refer you to the student show at a protest at the University of Washington about 10 days ago: http://q13fox.com/2017/01/24/shooter-sent-facebook-message-t...

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#220

Post by coderdude »

griffinmmahon wrote: post #201
coderdude wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make no mistake, this was absolutely about shutting people up that they don't agree with. The harassment we're actually seeing in any tangible form is coming from the rioters.

>shutting people up that they don't agree with Yes, but people are allowed to do that . I don't think "free speech" means what you think it means. It's a comforting idea that other people are too immature/emotional/dumb to consciously think about an opposing belief, but that wasn't the case here. There's no obligation to hear out a side that would do you harm given the choice. w/r/t letting people say unpopular thing…

No, they aren't. That's the point. We're not talking about yelling over someone while they're talking or even using a private publication to present only a set of opinions that fits with some agenda. The specific point being made was about using violence, destruction, hate, and fear as a means to silence people.

Calling me names (or other people) doesn't make what you're saying valid. It wasn't an effective tactic for the left during the election and it's not an effective tactic in this conversation.

At any rate, I don't think you're arguing against points that I've actually made. This sounds more like a response to some hypothetical response that you were anticipating before I responded.

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