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India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

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Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#231

Post by nodemaker »

kamaal wrote: post #173
maddalab wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote from the article "Let me tell you another story: my neighbour in the upper-middle-class area where I live is a man who owns luxury hotels. His house is huge, but no sooner had he moved in than he appropriated about half of the pavement space to the front and side of his house, claiming it for his own. This means less parking for others, less pavement for children, less walking space for everyone. Of the 400-odd…

This is a common pattern with all articles about India. The west really likes to talk about how shitty conditions are here. The theme is to take a one-off incident and then exaggerate and generalize it so much that it must look like the norm. Then talk about about evil rich, selfish middle class and super poor farmers. And then yes your usual dowry, caste system issues thrown here and there. And those who leave India…

The conditions are really shitty here. Even other south-asian countries like Vietnam and Thailand are doing so much better in almost everything. If you don't think India is one of the most pathetic countries in the world, a little travel will change that.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#232

Post by [deleted] »

curiousfiddler wrote: post #195
ashray wrote: post #6

Ooh, no comments, I'll bite. The last time I said something negative about Indian society I had my personal details thrown all over HN. Wonder what's going to happen this time. So here's the thing. This article is pretty spot on. We, the privileged of India, do indeed feel entitled. There's absolutely no doubt about that. My theory is that the population pressure in India is so very high that you're always fighting f…

I just hope that this is not how we reason about things in general. I feel very sad reading your comment especially on HN. Not because what you are saying is right or wrong. But because the conclusions you draw are based on pretty much your personal experiences and those experiences are a very small sample set. My concerns: 1. "I've had statements from rich girls in New Delhi who don't like 'these poor people who sta…

[deleted]

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#233

Post by [deleted] »

gaurav_bubna wrote: post #207
ashray wrote: post #6

Ooh, no comments, I'll bite. The last time I said something negative about Indian society I had my personal details thrown all over HN. Wonder what's going to happen this time. So here's the thing. This article is pretty spot on. We, the privileged of India, do indeed feel entitled. There's absolutely no doubt about that. My theory is that the population pressure in India is so very high that you're always fighting f…

> These people struggle (or think that they do..) for so long in the rat race that they forget that they have risen above it and gone far beyond that. India definitely makes you feel this. I know this one senior guy who lived for a very long time in New York (~10 years) after his grad school and moved a few years back to Mumbai. He is very rich but he says that he feels poorer in Mumbai than he ever felt in New York,…

[deleted]

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#235

Post by potatolicious »

javert wrote: post #204
vacri wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loathe pop sci interpretations of animal behaviour applied against human behaviour (which includes the context of the parent of your comment) but humans are apes. The 'Great Apes' are chimps, gorillas, orangs, and humans.

Thanks for the correction, I guess I was wrong on that point, though hopefully the actual intended meaning of my statement remains intact. EDIT: Well, according to Wikipedia, "Great Ape" is a common name, not a taxonomic label, and is only sometimes used to include humans. I, personally, would advocate not equating the term "great ape" with the hominidae family.

Your original intent remains intact because I don't think anyone here knows what the original intent was. How is labeling humans as "apes" dangerous?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#236

Post by ashray »

ippisl wrote: post #225
ashray wrote: post #6

Ooh, no comments, I'll bite. The last time I said something negative about Indian society I had my personal details thrown all over HN. Wonder what's going to happen this time. So here's the thing. This article is pretty spot on. We, the privileged of India, do indeed feel entitled. There's absolutely no doubt about that. My theory is that the population pressure in India is so very high that you're always fighting f…

Ashray, do the new middle class(programmers for example, people who came from poverty) behave any differently ? Is there a growing new middle class ?

The middle class in India is growing quite fast. I can't imagine a programmer behaving this way, so I'll say no. The example in the article is very indicative of behavior in and around New Delhi however, it'd be hard to find that kind of behavior in say Mumbai or Chennai. (I currently live in New Delhi btw)

Areas around New Delhi suffer from an acute nouveau riche problem. Most well educated (programmer like..) people wouldn't act out in such a callous and insensitive manner. However, they will most likely still view people from lower classes differently, this may not be evident in the way people act but you can catch onto it if you pay attention to certain remarks that people may make. (eg: I can't ride with those smelly people in the Delhi metro)

Again, these are generalizations, not everyone is an asshole. Most people aren't. However, there is a great deal of prejudice and I believe the only way forward is for people to acknowledge it in the first place.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#237

Post by openforce »

kamaal wrote: post #165
jlarocco wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. > I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the…

I am an Indian and I have never been to any other country so far. But I wrote stands true for India. Caste system is a option, you can either associate yourself to it or leave it. This is true at least in modern day India and has been the the case for nearly 20 years now. You can easily ditch your caste, just like atheists ditch their religion. The fact is caste system offers a comfortable cushion of victim hood and…

One should travel, Kamaal. Perspectives change with travel (Even within India, but not the temple hopping travel). You will understand so much more of the world from travel than from being in front of the screen for 19 hours every day. Life does not begin after you retire.

Caste system is not just reservations/backward communities. It includes the different sub-castes (Ex - Different sub-castes in the Brahmin caste). This is very relevant in vote bank politics. A candidate belonging to sub-caste X will not get elected if the region has majority people from sub-caste Y, even if the candidate is known to be capable.

The main reason for the terrible infrastructure conditions in India is politics and corruption. These are strongly rooted in the caste/sub-caste system. Money has always been flowing freely in politics and it is what makes politics attractive.

The terrible infrastructure I refer to is basic - water, electricity, medicines. Malls, fancy cars cannot substitute water. In India, People are dying for water these days. This will only increase exponentially. There has been research showing that 24 hour water supply is possible with the current fresh water resources in India, but it won't happen, thanks to politics, corruption and the caste system.

The SUV situation brought up in the article is not caste based. It was money based and money is the new, bonus caste system on top of existing ones.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#238

Post by denzil_correa »

baali wrote: post #220
denzil_correa wrote: post #126

There may be a lot of misconceptions on the poor and class divide in India. I would like to answer some of them by posting some numbers and providing context. Who are the 'poor' in India? The poor in India, according to the Planning Commission, are people who live on 32 Indian Rupees/59cents per day. How many people are poor in India? The Planning Commission of India reports that there are 29.8% of the population who…

This link might be a good read related to income per day context and an attempt to manage in that much amount: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/Harsh_Mander/barefoo...

TFS. I was trying to find this article but I couldn't.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#239

Post by kstop »

smartwater wrote: post #208
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because a million bucks in the Bay Area will only buy you a 900 sq. ft. bungalow on the brink of collapse. A millionaire stopped being remarkable quite a while back.

People make a million by accident these days!

I would like to have this accident plz.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#240

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

bbbhn wrote: post #150
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a fundamental moral conflict in desiring to own more than the next person. That requires less guilt or empathy, no doubt about that. You can find elsewhere an study about how psycopaths are usually found in leading positions, like politicians (specially in 3rd world, where salaries are high) and CEOs, amongst others.

You're grossly simplifying things. A person may be driven to succeed and generate wealth for their family because they want to be able to send their children to the best schools possible, or they want to be able to access the best medical practitioners and technology if someone they cared about were to get sick. It may have absolutely nothing to do with owning "more than the next person."

I'm amazed you didn't see how much you contradicted yourself.
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