Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

newint.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 251 posts

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#221

Post by chii »

ashray wrote: post #14
dalke wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange. When I have money, I feel generous about it, and want to use that money to help others. I thought most people felt that way. It's one of the reasons that a progressive tax system makes good sense to me. There are many ways that people get to be rich. Some are born into it, and stay rich because of systemic biases. Others "value spending their time getting money over helping others" and get rich that way. Sti…

The difference is that you acknowledge that you 'have' money. Also, you possibly acknowledge that you had certain opportunities that other people could ill afford and therefore have this money. Unfortunately, the difference in opportunity in India is considered (by both rich and poor) to be something that God has handed down and therefore it's fair. By the rich because it's convenient to think that way and by the poo…

> attribute their poverty to God and therefore do not blame the rich or seek retribution....If the Indian belief system was like the Brazilian system, over here there would be a civil war.

that's interesting. I've always considered religion to be a form of control over people by a certain elite group. This gives me more anecdotal confirmation.

I wonder if indian society could be better served if there was a civil war, where the poor raise up, and appropriate the land from the wealthy. I keep reading articles like http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generat... and it sounds like that would be a painful fix, but may be the end justify the means...

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#222

Post by chii »

bbbhn wrote: post #150
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a fundamental moral conflict in desiring to own more than the next person. That requires less guilt or empathy, no doubt about that. You can find elsewhere an study about how psycopaths are usually found in leading positions, like politicians (specially in 3rd world, where salaries are high) and CEOs, amongst others.

You're grossly simplifying things. A person may be driven to succeed and generate wealth for their family because they want to be able to send their children to the best schools possible, or they want to be able to access the best medical practitioners and technology if someone they cared about were to get sick. It may have absolutely nothing to do with owning "more than the next person."

but what you've said implies that the desire to own more than the next person does exist!

If there was a limited amount of a certain resource, i would certainly have to own more than the next person in order to acquire that resource.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#223

Post by jiggy2011 »

chii wrote: post #215
markdown wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This does not necessarily mean that they do not provide charity donations. They may just do it in a smarter way, for example attending charity dinners/events where they get to rub shoulders with other affluent people. Smarter = self-serving?

people don't donate (at least, not those huge donors who throw lavish dinner parties) out of the kindness of their own hearts. They do so to appear charitable, and to show off their status. THis is why you don't often see private, undisclosed and anonymous donations in large amounts. When a rich elite donates money, they are doing it to sing praises for themselves - whether they admit it consciously or not. The end r…

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqncCjxGqGw

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#224

Post by youngerdryas »

redcircle wrote: post #154
youngerdryas wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class. Care to elaborate on said traits?

One example: the inferiority complex.

An ambition to achieve wealth breeds an inferiority complex? Actually quite the opposite. In the states snobbery of any kind is severely looked down upon, as it should be.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#225

Post by ippisl »

ashray wrote: post #6

Ooh, no comments, I'll bite. The last time I said something negative about Indian society I had my personal details thrown all over HN. Wonder what's going to happen this time. So here's the thing. This article is pretty spot on. We, the privileged of India, do indeed feel entitled. There's absolutely no doubt about that. My theory is that the population pressure in India is so very high that you're always fighting f…

Ashray, do the new middle class(programmers for example, people who came from poverty) behave any differently ? Is there a growing new middle class ?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#226

Post by chii »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #223
chii wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people don't donate (at least, not those huge donors who throw lavish dinner parties) out of the kindness of their own hearts. They do so to appear charitable, and to show off their status. THis is why you don't often see private, undisclosed and anonymous donations in large amounts. When a rich elite donates money, they are doing it to sing praises for themselves - whether they admit it consciously or not. The end r…

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqncCjxGqGw

wow, what show is that?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#227

Post by makomk »

coopdog wrote: post #117
hkmurakami wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people struggle (or think that they do..) for so long in the rat race that they forget that they have risen above it and gone far beyond that. If these are people who have "made" the money themselves in their own generation, I can see why/how they still view themselves as middle class. It's a mindset. I have had the fortune of getting to know many SV millionaires who grew up in modesty/poverty, and still buy s…

I don't think it's just about money though. There's this entitled class who just fundamentally believe they are superior, the example from the article being the guy who threw over the fruit stall because the crowd wouldn't move. It's actually a problem in Australia where we all sort of treat each other as equals, for example our hospitality classes won't scrape and bow and call you sir, and everyone is ok with that.…

Wait, you're seriously arguing that Australia didn't have a racism problem until Indians reached there? Australia, where the Government systematically removed Aboriginal kids from their parents in an attempt to wipe out the Aboriginal communities? Where the police can and do still get away with grabbing Aboriginal people off the streets and dumping them in the middle of nowhere to die just for being the wrong race? That Australia?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#229

Post by nonce42 »

bradleyjg wrote: post #203
hkmurakami wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people struggle (or think that they do..) for so long in the rat race that they forget that they have risen above it and gone far beyond that. If these are people who have "made" the money themselves in their own generation, I can see why/how they still view themselves as middle class. It's a mindset. I have had the fortune of getting to know many SV millionaires who grew up in modesty/poverty, and still buy s…

> Give it one or two generations though. Their kids and grandkids will probably behave and believe that they're upper class. I don't know about India, but in the US there is a bizzare cultural phenomenon where everyone wants to see himself as middle class. Being identified as rich is somehow faintly embarrassing. You see all kinds of strange verbal gymnastics in trying to justify middle class status. Heck there is pl…

The people who claim that $X million in Silicon Valley is still just middle class are annoying, but it's true. I have $8 million and it honestly changes very little. I'm living a middle class life, working a middle class programming job, my friends are middle class, I buy middle class stuff, and I have no special power or respect. I'm not sure how to convince you that this isn't just verbal gymnastics, but real.

There are a few advantages. One difference is I don't worry about how I'm going to pay for e.g. a $1000 car repair (but it's still painful). I'm also more likely to hire someone for maintenance or gardening. Also, I theoretically could quit my job and live off my investments, but that's unlikely to happen.

Of course this is partially a linguistic argument. If you define upper class as the top income quintile, for instance, than I'm upper class, but that's meaningless.

I do wonder if I'm doing things wrong, and there's some secret for admission to the upper class. Maybe I should start flying first class, buy a Ferrari, stop shopping at Target, and hang out with rich people. (Although I think that would just make me nouveau riche, not upper class.)

(My motivation in this comment is that these HN threads tend to be entirely speculation, and the semi-rich never comment, so I hope to provide a useful perspective.)

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#230

Post by snambi »

Wow... very nice. While the rich are really mean and ferocious, the poor (normal) people are very generous and giving. That is the reason the country is still functioning. Fortunately there are millions of normal ( poor by western standards ) people in India, especially outside of the big cities. Still most people live in villages which is a very good thing, they are not yet corrupted by the greediness. I hope they don't.
Post reply on HN