Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#231

Post by phpisthebest » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #47

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite true, DOL will go to bat for you and fine the employer and get you paid. Violations of labor law are not simply small claims civil matters. Some employers get large fines.

The whole article is about how DOL mostly doesn't go to bat for people. Of $50 bil in wage theft, DOL recovered ~$3 bil.

Often times it is due to the employee not properly documenting anything. They still have to prove they are owed the money. you cannot just go to the DOL and claim you owed something with no proof.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#232

Post by Aurornis » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

avgcorrection wrote: post #73

spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

The idea of industry-wide "no-hire lists" is a bogeyman that bad employers use to control young employees who don't yet know any better.

At worst, you won't get a positive recommendation from an employer like this if somebody calls and asks. The idea that employers are busy maintaining "no-hire lists" and collecting names from all of their industry peers doesn't hold up, at least not outside of maybe weird small-town social bubbles.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#233

Post by RHSeeger » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

avgcorrection wrote: post #77

alkonaut wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An anonymous tip and a few inspections of staff logs and payrolls would make it pretty easy to make this disappear. The problem is that these sort of things (what regulations exist, whether authorities prioritize enforcing them) seems to always be answered with "no, because it's a poor people problem". It's unfair competition though, so it's really important that this doesn't happen. A restaurant that wants do to the…

> It's unfair competition though, so it's really important that this doesn't happen. A restaurant that wants do to the right thing shouldn't have to worry about a few % worse competitiveness on wages because the asshat across the street has his staff work for free. The true crime is as always the impact on businesses.

> The true crime is as always the impact on businesses

It's hard to tell if you meant this as sarcasm or not, but... it really is a big deal. If all your competitors are screwing their employees in order to increase their margins, that means they can out-compete your on price. Which means you can either screw _your_ employees.. or risk going out of business. And eventually, the only players left are the ones that are screwing their employees.

So yes, if you want to look out for employees, then you need to look out for businesses by making sure everyone is following the same rules. That doesn't mean the businesses themselves are more important, just that their health is vital to the well-being of the employees.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#234

Post by vundercind » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:41 PM UTC

Philorandroid wrote: post #219

vundercind wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s interesting that the labeling and the observed behavior of the system really do match.

Again, you've made no claims, only voiced vague notions of your distaste

I claim that the name “capitalism” states whose interests are favored in our system. That’s a claim, and it’s not vague.

Also I didn’t voice distaste.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#235

Post by pierat » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:41 PM UTC

willcipriano wrote: post #160

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that people who steal formula use it to cut drugs? https://city-attorney.columbus.gov/pdf/press/babyformulaband... There are a lot of organizations that give out formula for free but not at scale required for nefarious uses.

Low income mothers can get formula from the government. https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic It was probably all theft to exchange for drugs. During the pandemic there was a formula shortage and allowing theft rather than punishing it probably ensured some children went without unnecessarily.

Any means testing (and I do mean ANY) will always exclude people who have an actual need who'll never be able to get.

And really, if 1 out of a thousand "cuts drugs" with formula, so be it. At least that's non-toxic... and frankly, laughable as DARE propaganda.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#236

Post by cscurmudgeon » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:41 PM UTC

amrocha wrote: post #216

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that people who steal formula use it to cut drugs? https://city-attorney.columbus.gov/pdf/press/babyformulaband... There are a lot of organizations that give out formula for free but not at scale required for nefarious uses.

Look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself you honestly believe drug dealers are stealing formula to cut drugs with rather than mom's just need to feed their babies

Maybe you should stop looking at yourself in the mirror and look at the data?

As a parent, I feel people like you are the reason formula ends up being unavailable for real babies as you enable gangs to steal them driving up cost.

Here is a list of places with free baby formula and stuff in the Bay Area:

https://www.211bayarea.org/sanfrancisco/food/food-programs/f...

https://www.findhelp.org/goods/diapers-%26-formula--san-jose...

https://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/san_francisco_and_s...

One advice: Stop with harmful virtue signaling. It is easy to virtue signal like you do here with looking at any data or bearing any of the real cost of virtue signaling. I will repeat. People like you are the reason formula ends up being unavailable for real babies as you enable gangs to steal them driving up cost and causing shortages during real crises. As a parent this is frustrating and rage inducing.

https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/infantandtoddlernutrition/form...

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#237

Post by havblue » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:41 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

This is more of a shade of gray, but I think over-assigning side work is also a form of unpaid labor that managers allow to happen to their front house staff as well.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#238

Post by phpisthebest » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:41 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #230

phpisthebest wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very simplistic, and somewhat wrong First and foremost, states do not, and cannot "create free markets" the existence of a state to regulation a market makes is de-facto non-free This is also a very rose colored look at unions, while simultaneously demonizing businesses. In reality it is completely possible to have an exploitive union. At the end of the day, power corrupts, and the more power a person or grou…

err.. no, free markets are state constructions. By default, an unregulated market becomes non-free essentially immediately, as cartels form (indeed, as cartels of cartels form, hence states ). As Hobbes observed, in the state of nature there is no motivation to remain as an individual, so you form groups in order for self-protection. In an "anarchical market" you end up with incredible levels of monopolisation (etc.)…

well now we will get in a Hobbes vs Locke, I am more Lockean

I disagree, and history has shown that free markets absent government control doe not instantly become monopolized, and infact through out most of history monopolize form when the government regulates the most

Look at todays market as an example, the most competition is present in markets where the government has the least influence, where markets like energy, healthcare, etc which are the most regulated are also the most monopolized

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#239

Post by Spivak » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:43 PM UTC

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #149

pierat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, I worked at $retailer for a time, and even their statements were to "DO NOT ENGAGE SHOPLIFTERS". Worse yet, I can scarcely imagine some $12/hr being told to chase after shoplifters... That's gonna end up being shot or shivved. And frankly, there were times in which I saw people steal food. And in those cases, I never saw a thing! Especially when formula was being "acquired". One time, during Black Friday, someo…

You do realize that people who steal formula use it to cut drugs? https://city-attorney.columbus.gov/pdf/press/babyformulaband... There are a lot of organizations that give out formula for free but not at scale required for nefarious uses.

I feel like that is the least committal press release that could exist about this topic. The police might be correct but the facts described aren't as clear cut as they're making it.

> Wilson has a history of drug offenses: felony drug abuse, felony possession of cocaine, and possession of drug paraphernalia.

"Offenses" is carrying the whole team here. All this says is that he was charged with the crime of doing drugs while black. I could have been arrested for all of these at one time in my life or another. Without a trafficking charge they're just speculating he might be a dealer.

> While a black market exists for stolen baby formula to be resold for its intended purpose, reports indicate that baby formula also is used as a cutting agent for cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine by drug dealers looking to dilute their product and stretch their supply.

So he could be cutting drugs with it, or he could just be stealing it to sell directly. He even could even be selling it to actual drug dealers. Not saying that's better but the police kinda gloss over that as presented that's the more likely option.

I promise I'm not trying to drag you or anything but I'm originally from Columbus and you have to take anything the CPD says with a shaker of salt. Columbus is a fairly boring city and so CPD always tries to punch up the stories.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#240

Post by RHSeeger » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:43 PM UTC

droopyEyelids wrote: post #192

spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

I also experienced wage theft while waiting tables, and also thought 'thats just how it works' As a server, aside from taking orders and carrying food, we had 'sidework' before and after our shift- stuff like cutting lemons into wedges for water, rolling silverware in napkins, refilling condiments, etc. That all needed to be done before/after clocking in. Additionally, if diners stayed late, our timecards were edited…

> we were required to give 10% of our tips to share with the back-of-house employees like bus boys

The places I worked

- busboys were not back-of-house employees; they were out on the floor helping take care of tables (bussing them, refilling coffee, making deserts, etc).

- the wait staff gave the 10% (or whatever it was) directly to the busboys. And some to the hostess, and some to the bartender; basically all the client facing staff.

I have no memory of the owners doing anything dishonest to the staff (at any of the places I worked), so either I was blind to things, or there _are_ (were) some good ones out there.