I wonder if it makes sense to de-prioritize the unvaccinated.
Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
231–240 of 335 posts
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people who fall under "health care workers" don't have a medical degree. Many, including techs and nursing assistants, don't have a bachelor's degree either. So, that population isn't really all that different from the general U.S. population in many ways. Among physicians and medical researchers with PhDs, though, you'll find very little resistance to vaccines.
So we are down the rabbit hole of the credentials fallacy, no one can be creditable or have valid concerns / issues unless they have a MD or PhD?
No, the inverse.
We shouldn't treat the opinions of a CNA who might have had as few as 85 hours of education as "the opinions of a medical professional" - -that- is entirely valid. Their opinions can be credible, and they can have valid concerns, but they're not held higher because they have a cert or license or degree.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#233I suspect one could go a long way towards solving this by announcing that unvaccinated covid cases will get zero health insurance coverage. Make exceptions for those that truly cannot be vaccinated but to hell with everyone else. Going further, make society difficult to navigate for people unwilling to be vaccinated or wear masks and our frontline workers will have much better lives. Why are we compromising our quali…
This is about to happen: once the FDA approve the vaccine, it will be legal for health insurance companies to give preferential treatment to the vaccinated and for employers to mandate vaccines.
My wife's employer is not mandating vaccines and they are on the verge of mandating a return to work with everyone wearing masks all day long to accommodate their anti-vaccine employees. She may not stay there much longer. Life is too short.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup, news reports about "hospitals are 90% capacity" or whatever is a business decision by design. They might have a couple more floors available but no staff for them because they aren't scheduled, because patients aren't there. They proactively cut staff wherever possible and then try to react.
Actually regulations limit the number of beds hospitals can have. The theory is that this will cut health care costs to insurers and the government because they assume hospitals will find a way to admit patients until they are full.
Regulations also limit the number of hospitals you can have in a city/county. You have to demonstrate a need for the healthcare facility. Currently 35 states require a CON (Certificate of Need) to open a new healthcare facility.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
If a company cares about you, it is shown in money. The People and Culture guy is a snake oil salesman meant to scam you.
I think you're underplaying non-financial incentives. I would rather have a job that pays $X but offers flexible work hours and vacation time that allows me to be a better parent, than a job that pays $1.5X but won't let me take a day or afternoon off to (e.g.) take my kid to the doctor, etc. Granted, that probably applies more to WFH desk jobs than front-line nurses.
you're right about these other incentives, but they're all forms of time off.
I believe the GP was referring to the other "stuff" companies try to do to get you to feel like they care about you, but that don't impact your ability to make your own choices about your life the way more time or money do.
e.g., "free" swag, company-wide retreats/outings
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people who fall under "health care workers" don't have a medical degree. Many, including techs and nursing assistants, don't have a bachelor's degree either. So, that population isn't really all that different from the general U.S. population in many ways. Among physicians and medical researchers with PhDs, though, you'll find very little resistance to vaccines.
I'm reluctant to leverage such language, but this is an appeal to authority. And there's tons of historical evidence that authorities failed to produce their predicted end without regard to their field, specialty, education, politics, etc... So to acede to this solely on the basis that the "intelligentsia" has is perhaps just as blind a means as a coinflip. And there is of course a plenitude of arguments about how po…
No, it's more the reverse, and it has validity. "Look, even medical professionals have concerns" is a soundbite that loses a lot of its weight when you realize that in some cases, you are looking at MAs with 20 weeks of schooling, LPNs, or even CNAs (who could have had as few as 85 hours of schooling) as "medical professionals" - they can have opinions, validity, concerns - but holding them up as medical professionals worthy of higher merit to their concern has varying degrees of flimsiness.
This isn't to knock those concerns. But while neither an MD, an LPN, or a layperson is an epidemiologist, we should be exalting the opinions of them by virtue of their authority. Not because you _need_ to be an epidemiologist to have a valid opinion, but because the above buys you no more merit, in and of itself.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#237I've never worked as a nurse or doctor but it's hard to imagine what they go through. Every day they deal with people in serious pain, people with traumatic injuries, rude people, rude people with traumatic injuries, screaming children and babies. Apparently nurses in particular are also routinely disrespected by higher-ups, put in danger by higher-ups, and don't get paid much. In college I heard insane stories from…
I find it absurd that we allow medical staff to work 24 hour shifts. We don't let pilots do that. We don't let truckers do that.
24?
Try being in EMS.
24... 36... 48. The private ambulance company I used to work for allowed you to work 60 hours straight, and then required an 8-12 hour break, if you wanted to work up to another 60.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does social distancing somehow increase the risk of getting the Delta? I did some searching and couldn't find anything to back that up, if a certain state was better at social distancing the first time it seems like they probably would be for the next one too
I meant to point out that if a region has kept COVID conflagrations from happening, via social distancing efforts, they will have accumulated less natural immunity, thus they are riper for conflagrations in the future. The way I predict "who's next" in the U.S. is to look at which states are at the bottom in terms of infections per capita. Those are the ripest. The technique has worked very well for me thus far.
Calling this entire argument out as non-factual. Oregon, Washington and Hawaii all are leading the nation in vaccination rate per capita. The idea of natural immunity is unfounded. You might have immunity BECAUSE you already had COVID.
The idea that "infections per capita" trumps vaccination rate when determining future infections rates is just ridiculous.
And claiming this is a hit job on a red state is just as foolish. Arkansas is one of the laggards in vaccinations, and the Delta variant is showing why they're paying the price.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apparently going on shifts working 72+ hours non-stop is the norm. Absolutely not and it’s insane to even think that could be true.
It depends what one means by "shift". For example my brother-in-law is a firefighter. He spends 3/4 days straight in the firehouse and then comes home for 3/4 days and works something like 12 hours straight when he is on call and gets rest periods when not actually doing firefighter work. This is possible because the firehouse basically has a small dorm in it. When I ask him when he is going to work he says he has a…
As a firefighter, even for firefighters that's beyond the norm. He's picking up extra shifts, there.
The typical maximum scheduled is 48 on, 96 off.
Around here (west coast) it's typically called a Detroit schedule (so not just west coast, I guess!)... 24 on, 48 off, but even more closely around here we use a Modified Detroit, which is a nine day rotation, where you work a 24 hour shift on days 1, 3 and 5 of the rotation, and have days 2, 4, 6-9 off.
Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're underplaying non-financial incentives. I would rather have a job that pays $X but offers flexible work hours and vacation time that allows me to be a better parent, than a job that pays $1.5X but won't let me take a day or afternoon off to (e.g.) take my kid to the doctor, etc. Granted, that probably applies more to WFH desk jobs than front-line nurses.
The disgruntled nurses I know don't want more money anywhere near as much as they want things like lunch and bathroom breaks. Money can't buy happiness, but not being able to take care of your basic bodily needs can absolutely buy unhappiness.
> Money can't buy happiness
Usually when someone says this to me, I respond with "then you're spending your money poorly". What I mean to say is that more money buys more flexibility and options, which should lead to more opportunities to leave unhappy situations or at least add more happy situations. Note that this is a generalization so there are plenty of edge cases to counter this.