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Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

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Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#231

Post by cek »

jdavid wrote: post #217
nathanb wrote: post #71

"it's entirely unacceptable to break into websites and commit unlawful acts" This is quite the hypocritical statement coming from the FBI. As far as I can tell, the only difference between Anonymous, Lulzsec, and the FBI is that the FBI act by executive fiat. I don't support Internet vigilanteism, but I also don't support the concept of the FBI as an untouchable force who are no longer held accountable by the public…

> At this point, I'm not sure which one I find more scary. Maybe the ones with guns. Today I have not heard of a single case of hackers using guns to make a point, but the government does all of the time. I can live with all of the hysteria in the world if someone does not mame my body, with blunt objects, explosions, pointy things, or projectiles.

Is an aircraft crashing into a building not a source of "blunt objects, explosions, pointy things, or projectiles" that can maim your body?

So far the acts of these groups have only been against typical websites. What happens when it escalates to aircraft, air-traffic control systems, nuke plants, dams, and other things where disrupted systems could cause massive loss of life?

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#232

Post by bwana »

cek wrote: post #231
jdavid wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point, I'm not sure which one I find more scary. Maybe the ones with guns. Today I have not heard of a single case of hackers using guns to make a point, but the government does all of the time. I can live with all of the hysteria in the world if someone does not mame my body, with blunt objects, explosions, pointy things, or projectiles.

Is an aircraft crashing into a building not a source of "blunt objects, explosions, pointy things, or projectiles" that can maim your body? So far the acts of these groups have only been against typical websites. What happens when it escalates to aircraft, air-traffic control systems, nuke plants, dams, and other things where disrupted systems could cause massive loss of life?

and marijuana smoking always leads to heroin abuse...

cek...get a grip. sometimes we have to wait for the future and adapt instead of trying to control it.

Would you rather struggle/suffer/work for an imaginary possible situation or one that exists?

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#233

Post by Vivtek »

darksaga wrote: post #173
Vivtek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. People said the same damn thing about every activist in history. "Don't anger Sony because they'll only make prices higher for everybody!" Yes. Their costs will be higher, so economically they'll either take less profit or have higher prices. Then they will be at a disadvantage in the marketplace. At some point the cold equations of economics will dictate that they either change their ways or die.

It has nothing to do with activist history - this how economics works. What happened to the price of gas when there was a disaster in the gulf of Mexico? Oh yeah, gas prices went up and up and up. Who really paid for the disaster? BP or us the consumer? It's not like one day their TV's are $300, and then overnight they're $1000. All they have to do is edge the price up moderately over time to make back their losses.…

Well, and I say this in the nicest possible way, no shit. Yes. Of course they do. What else can they do? Is the answer then never to worry an executive, or should it be to speak to them in the only language that can ever reach a corporation: make it less profitable for them to act like assholes?

The cost of assholery at the corporations is also passed on to the consumer - and everybody else on the planet - it may simply not be in absolute dollars and cents in purchase price. But we all end up paying.

Incidentally, gas prices have nothing to do with the disaster in the Gulf, and everything to do with (1) what the market will bear, (2) increased consumption in BRIC nations, and (3) profit-taking and commodity games. The oil companies, including BP, have made more money in the past year than they ever have. So they're not passing the price of disaster on; they're simply taking whatever they can grab because they know nobody is ever going to try to worry a corporation for fear they might not hire somebody. Like they will anyway.

Gah. Probably too much grar here. I'm going to go lie down.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#234

Post by nitrogen »

gdcbyers wrote: post #193
burgerbrain wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interpretation is accurate. Think about it, how many people in this world have actually signed up to be dominated by their government? Very very few (immigrants might count). Yet we don't question their authority because 1) we are used to it, and 2) every few years, they ask our opinion. Of course they know that they can safely ask our opinion because they know that we've already bought into the entire thing. It…

So in this little metaphor, the people play the role of the hostages, the government plays the role of the kidnappers (lawless criminals) and LulzSec play the role of the government (the good guys trying to save you) Interesting. Confusing, but interesting. > Think about it, how many people in this world have actually signed up to be dominated by their government? No one is making any such claims. Your claim appears…

Sony International and friends > I know they tend to make shitty stuff, especially music, but I have yet to have a single person be able to point to an action by sony that could be called "dominating", "abusive", "unjust", etc

Perhaps you are unaware of their removal of OtherOS or persecution of geohot?

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2614698 (a previous comment I made on another article)

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#235

Post by [deleted] »

fleitz wrote: post #158
jackpirate wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikileaks/Anon/Lulzsec will have no effect on the DPRK. I think they would actually have a very detrimental effect. In the US, we routinely blame the governments of China and Russia for hacks that could easily be perpetuated by high schoolers who live there. No doubt, DPRK would blame our official institutions, giving them much more legitimacy (at least internally, but probably internationally too) when they claim th…

The world IS out to get the DPRK. They just propose different reasons then we do, apparently we don't like their freedoms and are terrified of the Juche idea. We say we don't like them because they execute minors, the mentally retarded, start wars, proliferate nuclear weapons, maintain torture camps, and jail large amounts of their populations for personal choice issues, and refuse to sign simple treaties like land m…

[deleted]

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#236

Post by caf »

Schultzy wrote: post #81
scythe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In short, the minute I start deciding on my own when to break the law and disrespect other people's property rights because of a cause -- even a legitimate cause -- I become an enemy of everybody. ' [...] at first glance it may seem rather paradoxical for us consciously to break laws. One may well ask: "How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer lies in the fact that there are two types…

>"How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. The problem with that line of thinking is that there is no universally accepted, objective standard of what defines a just and unjust law. Do we make those…

This is ultimately the responsibility of every person, to decide what actions are just and unjust and act accordingly. Yes, it's hard, and there is no universally accepted objective standard - but tough, you don't get a free pass anyway.

Feel free to take guidance wherever you find it - from the principles of the law itself, from your peers, your family, your elders. But consider Nuremburg, and consider the Milgram Experiment: ultimately the responsibility is yours, and cannot be shirked.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#237

Post by danssig »

bwana wrote: post #232
cek wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is an aircraft crashing into a building not a source of "blunt objects, explosions, pointy things, or projectiles" that can maim your body? So far the acts of these groups have only been against typical websites. What happens when it escalates to aircraft, air-traffic control systems, nuke plants, dams, and other things where disrupted systems could cause massive loss of life?

and marijuana smoking always leads to heroin abuse... cek...get a grip. sometimes we have to wait for the future and adapt instead of trying to control it. Would you rather struggle/suffer/work for an imaginary possible situation or one that exists?

We already are. It's called "the war on terror".

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#239

Post by danssig »

tshs33 wrote: post #166
thaumaturgy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, as long as there is some other country in the world that is more oppressive than the U.S., we shouldn't be addressing our own issues at home? That's not a good recipe.

What specific issues do you have that can't be taken to your local congressman/woman? We have them for a reason.

You must be a troll. What the fuck good is taking the issue to your local congress person going to do? The majority of voters wanted the public option and made this know and what happened? The US government is owned by the rich corporations and has been for years. The "rules" they lay down for us to follow are just so many rat mazes that lead no where but let the naive feel like they're doing something meaningful.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#240

Post by danssig »

darksaga wrote: post #40

I wonder if they'll ever understand the people they're trying to protect are actually the victims in their actions. They hack Sony. Sony loses millions. How do you think they're going to recapture their loses? By passing the loss onto consumers. Increased prices for TV's, games, anything Sony makes is going to increase in price to recoup their loses. Clearly they haven't thought this all the way through.

What would you suggest then? There is no way to hurt the powerful without effecting the powerless. Should nothing ever be done then? If we followed that line of "reason" we'd still be the property of Kings.
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