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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#231

Post by drukenemo »

tashoecraft wrote: post #203
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

Agreed. So many non vegetarian/vegan people say stuff like this and it’s just wrong. Or they’ll say “why have a fake burger, can’t you just enjoy vegetarian food, why does it have to be a burger? If you want burger just eat one and stop trying to copy meat, innovate on your own”. It’s just people completely missing the point. If you get fake meat close enough in taste/texture/price you’ll move a large amount of produ…

Plant-based food aimed at replacing meat is often a too-many ingredient, industrialised nightmare.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#232

Post by sparrc »

sparrish wrote: post #2

It really shouldn't be called "meat". It should be called plant-based protein or meat-substitute. The definition of "meat" shouldn't change because you press some soy to look like a chicken leg.

should we also rename coconut milk? coconut cream? peanut butter?

should we rename mincemeat since it rarely if ever contains meat anymore?

and what about hot dogs...those don't contain dog do they? do we have to rename those too?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#233

Post by Grustaf »

867-5309 wrote: post #215
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

not only this, but to turn plants into "meat" you end up with horrible processed vegetables with added oils, sugars and unnatural flavourings. most of which are then breadcrumbed in bleached flour and deep fried. by this point, the thing that might once have been a plant is now as bad as meat, if not worse, and resembles a dog turd in taste and health benefits

Yeah I agree. There’s delicious vegetarian dishes, with low processed ingredients. Why bother with ultra processed fake meat?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#234

Post by hamax »

secondcoming wrote: post #217
hamax wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definition of meat by merriam-webster: a: FOOD especially : solid food as distinguished from drink b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell) The same as with milk. Nobody had problems with coconut milk until dairy lobby started fearing plant milk competition. And when one buys oat yogurt they know exactly what they'll get and what to compare it with. Or do you think…

Upvote this comment if you've ever encountered a native english speaker use the word 'meat' to be a synonym of 'solid food'. Option Base 1 I would like to see when Merriam Webster added this obscure definition, let alone have it listed first.

Sigh...

This is THE original definition. Language later evolved and people started using the word meat to mostly mean animal flash. But that's just proof that language evolves over time and now it's evolving again to include broader range of food.

But in any case, I'm sure you've heard of meat of a fruit or nut.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#235

Post by redisman »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #89
ebiester wrote: post #29

I disagree with some of the premises. First, I think that the right choice is to pick the right protein for the job, and not choose wheat and soy because of price. Mung beans, for example, are expensive because people aren't growing them. If quantity demanded grows, so will supply and supply chains, which will lower the price. It is possible that mung beans (as an example) are marginally more expensive to grow for so…

The thing that I found incredibly strange about this analysis is that it is saying how older plant-based products from Morningstar and Gardein show it can be done cheaper. What??? I don't even consider those older veggie products in the same category as Impossible and Beyond, mainly because I think they taste like shit. Well, not shit exactly, but for me an Impossible Burger can completely satiate my hunger for meat.…

Morningstar is pretty good with their sausage patties and hot dogs. Some of the best in those categories.

The gap between the 1.0 veggie meats and the current ones ( especially impossible) is insane though. Juiciness and flavor are completely on a different level. I love that it doesn’t feel like eating a fake burger to somewhat satisfy my craving anymore, but like I ate a burger.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#236

Post by thordenmark »

Judgmentality wrote: post #148
dehrmann wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, it's done great things for EVs. It has yet to turn that into a business that's more than nominally profitable, so you should be cautious in using its playbook.

> [Tesla] has yet to turn that into a business that's more than nominally profitable, so you should be cautious in using its playbook. And all their profits come from selling carbon credits to competitors, not from selling cars. Not to mention non-refundable presales for FSD functionality. That's not to say Tesla shouldn't be doing those things. They are trying to run a company after all. But it's important to rememb…

>And all their profits come from selling carbon credits to competitors,

This is merely a current strategy so more can be funneled into R&D, and growing the infrastructure.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#237

Post by scottLobster »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #205
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. I think this is too generous. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the implicit message here is that people actually care about the animals and sustainability of meat farming. My spouse is vegetarian and I'm whatever. I don't…

As an avid meat-eater (because nature almost by definition is living things eating other living things and humans evolved to be omnivorous for various nutritional reasons), my answer to the animal cruelty argument is just to buy the top-shelf, pasture-raised meats. It's better for my health and much better for the animals. Obviously I have no control over where restaurants source their food from, but I try to preference those who claim ethical/sustainable practices.

As for sustainability, the answer to that is to develop systems that price in environmental externalities. The issue isn't going to be solved through a meat boycott. Farm raised fish is also quite sustainable.

I'm personally looking forward to economically viable lab-grown meat. Once perfected it'll likely be the most sustainable option with none of the nutritional deficits and none of the ethical concerns. Plus we'll be able to engineer meat with tastes that don't exist in nature, endless variety!

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#238

Post by Grustaf »

hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

Would that really make a huge difference though? I’m all for people paying for their externalities but I wonder how significant it would be, are there any calculations?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#239

Post by Grustaf »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #90
hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

>> Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. Are we going to have people paying for the "externalities" of all the products they consume? For example, the people who buy a new phone every year or half (this habit causes a significant amount of pollution, so-called "e-waste"). The people who drive their car everywhere. The people who fly a few t…

Of course people should pay the true cost of what they buy or use. I can’t see how anyone could argue against that on moral grounds. You might disagree for financial reasons, but hardly out of principle.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#240

Post by Gustomaximus »

m463 wrote: post #96
hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

You know, I wonder if a meat-based production system is a hedge against catastrophic/extinction events. For example, let's say we have another potato-famine style event. Even a bio-engineered attack that takes out a crop or crops. We could scale back meat production and use the crop capacity we use to support the "meat pyramid" to feed people directly until the crisis has passed. Subsidizing crop capacity might make…

Government encouraging overproduction of food makes absolute sense. It's this or to store backup because to run food production at an efficient "only as much as I needed" models a disaster waiting to happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

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