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Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#231

Post by matthewowen »

cheez wrote: post #111
webkike wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, cities offer public transportation and a lot of enjoyable things to do. They were a thing before large corporations were seated there.

most people move to cities for work, not for restaurants and things to do. Not all, but most.

Depends on the city. Portland is a good example of a city with an anemic economy that people seem to be drawn to.

I mean, even Philly (where I live) has seen somewhat of a resurgence (especially relative to the MSA at large), despite a lot of jobs being outside the city.

I think we'll see the hypergrowth of the tech hubs drop off. I think cities more broadly might slow growth as millennials age into parenthood and that might be accelerated by recent events making cities more broadly seem less welcoming.

But I'm not sure that jobs will be the main driver here.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#232

Post by Aeolun »

user5994461 wrote: post #213
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By and large, Europe does not have Silicon Valley's culture of crazy overtime, living at the office, and spending your remaining free time with your colleagues.

European companies don't have equally nice office, free snacks or pay as top American companies. Companies that hire young driven workers and have a good environment can get a similar amount of overtime and the work all the time attitude.

Possibly, but the ‘young driven worker’ dynamic in Europe is just completely different, where you do not need to compete all that hard to have a comfortable life.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#233

Post by user5994461 »

advaita wrote: post #177
baddox wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I haven’t actually seen the supposed rental price decrease in SF and the peninsula, other than some 2- to 4-week free rent offers.

South bay anecdote: Rent was ~3.8k, I tried to negotiate on renewal (4- at same rate) saying market conditions dont justify it. The management refused to go below ~3.3k, now they are offering same apartment at 2.8k after I vacated. That's deep decrease (~33%), I fully expect the effects to show up starting Q4.

Exactly, the rental market is very illiquid, it could easily take a year for price to settle at a new low.

Landlords are stubborn beings always thinking they can rent easily and for more. Gotta take a beating with the property being empty for weeks/months before they adjust to reality. (Lettings agents don't care about waiting and pushing tenants out, they make fees either way).

Expect multiple hits downward over the coming year(s) as layoff benefits come to an end, personal savings dry up, evictions are reinstated, properties are foreclosed, etc...

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#234

Post by user5994461 »

pc86 wrote: post #113
dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I’d agree with you if my experiences with these tools wasn’t _so bad_. The current implementation of jira and confluence I’m using is worse than having _no_ ticket tracking and documentation system. Because if it didn’t exist there would be the impetus to implement something. But we just kinda barely limp by with what we have. It’s so barely functional that people actively avoid using it. I’m fully aware that th…

> I’m fully aware that the company is to blame and not necessarily atlassian though The problem is that this anecdote is not even remotely surprising. I've used JIRA and/or Confluence at three employers and all three had wildly different, and awful, configurations. I have never worked with any technical folks who loved either, although I think on the whole Confluence is slightly better than JIRA. I thought the same t…

Counterpoint, worked at a large well known bank who had a massive JIRA setup, and it honestly wasn't bad.

A couple of mandatory fields (department, team, application), that were manageable and that's about it.

They even the JIRA during my tenure there. Made user sessions last for a while instead of being disconnected every 15 minutes.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#235

Post by briandear »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #197
sverhagen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't depend on the office for their socialization Could you explain what you mean by this argument?

By and large, Europe does not have Silicon Valley's culture of crazy overtime, living at the office, and spending your remaining free time with your colleagues.

I work in Silicon Valley at a FAANG and that doesn’t describe the culture I experience at all.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#236

Post by cheez »

webkike wrote: post #157
cheez wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most people move to cities for work, not for restaurants and things to do. Not all, but most.

Okay, but then what would be the incentive for the people who are already there to leave?

Life reasons I suppose

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#237

Post by luckydata »

briandear wrote: post #235
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By and large, Europe does not have Silicon Valley's culture of crazy overtime, living at the office, and spending your remaining free time with your colleagues.

I work in Silicon Valley at a FAANG and that doesn’t describe the culture I experience at all.

You’re the minority. That mirrors what I observe pretty well.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#238

Post by user5994461 »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #214
JoshTriplett wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its a fairly powerful tool for PM's That's the fundamental problem. Jira is sold to PMs and managers, not to developers, and it shows. Jira isn't an issue tracking tool, it's a work-tracking and developer-tracking tool masquerading as an issue tracker. The people who spend the most time with it aren't the customer.

Can someone explain what is hard about Jira to me? I push bugs and pull bugs and spend maybe 20 minutes a day in it. What is hard about it? Am I just at a place that uses it sanely? Once a week we spend maybe 1 or 2 hours in it review/updating the Agile sprint buckets with the group.

You must at a place that is sane enough.

A non sane place would have 20 obscure mandatory fields per ticket, require the ticket to go through 10 different states that makes no sense, and last but not least, every click would take a full minute to load the page.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#239

Post by refurb »

daenz wrote: post #100

Anyone else suspect we are going to see a massive deflation of cities?

I wouldn't extrapolate what tech companies are doing across the entire economy. A slowing or stopping of growth in cities? Sure. Massive deflation? Tech workers make up a single digit percent of the population.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#240

Post by thingymajig »

dbish wrote: post #196
thingymajig wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to endlessly increase productivity. The US been increasing productivity faster than wages for decades and it hasn't been good for most people.

I'm not arguing either way for whether "we" need to as a whole, but if you want to get the most out of your team and company (and you should if you're running a startup) I think you should look at in person options again once things are somewhat normal if you want an advantage. Some sort of hybrid office(with dedicated per employee offices)+WFH flexibility is probably your best option.

Is there any evidence to support this?
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