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US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

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Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#231

Post by viraptor »

tomatocracy wrote: post #230
viraptor wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? This seems to disagree: https://support.google.com/families/answer/7039872 - you can set approvals for both paid and free apps.

That only works if you set up a separate child account for a separate device and then manage it using Family Link. If I want to hand my own phone over to a child for a while, there's no way (that I've found anyway) to prevent a child from installing all sorts of crapware on it.

On non-ancient Android versions you can have multiple user accounts. Create a new one and log it into your kid's family linked account. You can switch the user before giving it to them and they'll get the expected restrictions.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#232

Post by 693471 »

viraptor wrote: post #179
693471 wrote: post #156

iMessage is far more reliable, has richer features, never needs app updates (bc they come with the OS), E2E by default, and media attachments send faster and more reliably than SMS. I don't blame them. SMS is terrible. And most of the other apps suck or are from untrustworthy companies. Apple's being rewarded for good behavior.

Being integrated into the system is not necessarily a good thing. https://www.phonearena.com/news/iMessage-exploit-allows-hack... In that case you can't even remove it to protect yourself.

Apple fixes this stuff quickly enough for it to not be a huge issue, and if they ever needed to make iMessage a separate app like Android does with theirs they could do it. I'm certain they could remotely make it show up in the App Store in a moment's notice if needed. App store has root access, it can do it.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#233

Post by kethinov »

mbowcutt wrote: post #129
Kadin wrote: post #64

I switched to iOS (via a used iPhone on a BYOD plan) primarily for iMessage. I was tired of being the odd man out, missing out on things that were being planned via group messages, etc. Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake, so the existence of theoretical alternatives doesn't really matter. (And I do try to use Facebook Messenger for group chats, so as not to lock…

> But really this is Google's problem, not Apple's. I'm not sure we agree on what the problem is? If Google monopolized years ago, the story would play the same - only now it's the kid without Hangouts/Gmail. Sure, you're not locked into a physical device, but you're still locked into a service, and that's not guaranteed to hold true forever. IMO we need a modern messaging standard that's vendor agnostic. SMS/MMS wer…

Matrix is the answer. Unlike all the other trendy competitors (Signal, Telegram, etc) it is both fully open source and—crucially—federated.

But just because it's the best technical solution doesn't mean it'll take hold. If the best tech always won, we'd have adopted XMPP a long time before Matrix was created.

Sadly, I'm beginning to think the only way we're gonna put a stop to this crap is to threaten companies like Apple with antitrust regulation for such actions.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#234

Post by sergioj97 »

asclepi wrote: post #119
ariwilson wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article; the whole problem is Apple distinguishing between Android and Apple users.

Absolutely, but Whatsapp it isn't distinguishing any less between Whatsapp users and non-Whatsapp users. Messages doesn't entirely cut you off from people who don't bring money to Apple, and it doesn't require another app to communicate with them. It will handle and integrate it all in the same interface with iMessage, seamlessly switching in the background to make that possible. Whatsapp, OTOH, plainly refuses to le…

In order to use Messages, you need to have an iPhone (which you need to buy from the same vendor who wants you to use and owns Messages). WhatsApp is just an app.

I'm unsure of what do you mean when you say you see the same "vendor lock-in" in both cases.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#235

Post by feanaro »

danfang wrote: post #14
pcmoney wrote: post #6

It is interesting that the comments on the Twitter thread are "Just use WhatsApp". Which is basically iMessage but from Facebook. Comparing two, the vendor lock-in from Apple seems much preferable to the one with Facebook in light of the data scandals Facebook has and their ongoing effort to backdoor WhatsApp and integrate it with FB messenger etc. Also a group message is only as secure as its most weakly encrypted m…

I don't know if this is too self promoting, but I'm part of the YC SUS 2019 program and I'm building a product that addresses the issue of messaging lock in, as well as data privacy. I'm building Thread - an ad-free, private social network for groups. It's an alternative to Facebook (Messenger and WhatsApp), iMessage and GroupMe. It's the best way to connect with, share content to, and interact with the people in you…

What do you bring to the game now that Matrix exists? It's federated, E2E encrypted and clients are coming up nicely.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#236

Post by jsjohnst »

damnyou wrote: post #26
pcmoney wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sell your data and is not secure. What $750 dongle? You can get an iPhone for like $300 these days. Forces itself into your life? How? Apple's data security is better than literally every other smart phone provider and its OS is fundamentally less intrusive than Android.

You are forced to buy apps from Apple if you want to use iMessage. Forced to use Apple's crappy voice software. Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

> Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

Even the most basic of google searches proves that not true. There are literally dozens of ways to use AirPlay without an Apple TV (or even using any Apple products besides the phone), let alone additional ways which don’t involve Airplay.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#237

Post by myrandomcomment »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #222
myrandomcomment wrote: post #198

I opened Message on my Mac the other day to type a message to a friend. It switched to green and was not successful. WTH? Grabbed phone and asked him. Oh I moved to an Android. Painful. The fact that I have to use the phone to text him bugs me to no end. My current group of core friends are storing a party tomorrow and it is simple as it is all the blue text and I can read the messages on everything I own. Having to…

I can send SMS, MMS, and iMessages just fine from my macOS. Never had an issue. I assume SMS/MMS needs a mobile network connection from your phone though.

You have to have the feature on that let’s you take calls from you iPhone on the Mac. I do not want that on, but you are correct.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#238

Post by tomatocracy »

viraptor wrote: post #231
tomatocracy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works if you set up a separate child account for a separate device and then manage it using Family Link. If I want to hand my own phone over to a child for a while, there's no way (that I've found anyway) to prevent a child from installing all sorts of crapware on it.

On non-ancient Android versions you can have multiple user accounts. Create a new one and log it into your kid's family linked account. You can switch the user before giving it to them and they'll get the expected restrictions.

I'll give that a try, thanks!

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#239

Post by sixbrx »

txcwpalpha wrote: post #161
asclepi wrote: post #55

I do notice a pattern of misunderstanding that I've also observed when talking with Android users IRL. iMessage is very different from Whatsapp. For starters, there is no dedicated iMessage app. iMessage is managed from the iOS Messages app, which handles both iMessage and SMS. It's very good at managing both from one unified interface. In fact, it's so good that it uses arbitrary coloring of messages so you can see…

I think you're drastically misunderstanding the issue here. Everyone knows how Messages works in regards to the switchoff between iMessage and SMS. It's not like it's some secret that the Messages app is capable of also sending SMS. The problem is that it's also not a secret that SMS is objectively a worse experience than iMessage, especially for group chats. Why do you think the kids don't like it when a thread is g…

Regarding the work-related messaging, sounds like neither iMessage nor SMS is suitable for the job, and one of the many cross platform full featured messaging apps should be used instead.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#240

Post by sixbrx »

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #92
Stubb wrote: post #21

It's been refreshing moving the majority of my messaging to Telegram with a bit of Signal on the side. No worries about what platform people are using or that our data is being mined and sold to advertisers. Using iMessage is pretty much a fallback to people who are tech illiterate. The user experience on Telegram is so much better than the other options, and its privacy & security are good enough for my purposes.

Good for you that you could convince all of your friends and family to switch messaging services, that’s not realistic for most of us. Not sure what you’re going on about for tech illiteracy, iMessage is end-to-end encrypted and the feature set is perfectly fine.

Encrypted unless an Android user is involved which is the case here.
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