Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 248 posts

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#231

Post by llampx »

navigatesol wrote: post #112
toomuchtodo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits so FCA can still sell cars in Europe. EDIT: Please buy that Tesla and support a company who actually cares about selling EVs. https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300393/tesla-fiat-chrysl...

> FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits That's an interesting interpretation. FCA is buying ZEV credits in the market, of which Tesla has a large supply. Would you describe Facebook buying servers as "Facebook paying Intel billions so they can keep selling advertisements online"? > Please buy that Tesla Every time Tesla comes up and there's negativity, there are accusations of "paid short-sellers", w…

> That's an interesting interpretation. FCA is buying ZEV credits in the market, of which Tesla has a large supply. Would you describe Facebook buying servers as "Facebook paying Intel billions so they can keep selling advertisements online"?

That's a specious comparison. ZEV credits are a punitive measure designed to make automakers want to convert their fleet to electric where the market itself can't force it. Facebook buying components for their datacenter from said manufacturers of components has nothing to do with it. A more apt comparison would be Facebook being forced to pay doubleclick for each ad served on facebook.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#232

Post by navigatesol »

zaroth wrote: post #138
navigatesol wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits That's an interesting interpretation. FCA is buying ZEV credits in the market, of which Tesla has a large supply. Would you describe Facebook buying servers as "Facebook paying Intel billions so they can keep selling advertisements online"? > Please buy that Tesla Every time Tesla comes up and there's negativity, there are accusations of "paid short-sellers", w…

Either FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars for ZEV credits or they aren’t. It’s a demonstrable fact, not an interpretation. Actually I didn’t realize it was that much, but here’s a source. [1] They need these ZEV credits in order to sell their ICE fleet. This is also indisputable. And absolutely, yes, Facebook pays Intel billions of dollars to power the servers they use to serve ads on the internet. Now hopefully…

>but here’s a source. [1]

Elektrek is not a source, it's a Tesla PR mouthpiece. Here's a better one:

https://interestingengineering.com/gm-and-fiat-chrysler-unve...

Fred has an article up based on an Elon Musk tweet within half an hour, and has repeatedly printed baseless rumours.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#233

Post by esotericn »

gambiting wrote: post #229
esotericn wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er. About 7 years ago, EV charging points essentially did not exist. Right now we have rapid chargers that allow you to drive across Western Europe with 30 minute stops. In about another 7 years the chargers will be a complete non issue. Certainly in a place like the UK that has very few real "rural" areas. It may be the case that for that short period it made sense to produce hybrids. We'll still look back on it as…

I think there is a massive difference between long-range commute and just living in a city and needing a place to charge. Yes, if I wanted to drive down from Newcastle to London, or hop on the ferry to Amsterdam and drive down to Berlin, absolutely no problem - there is enough charging points along motorways that you will get pretty much anywhere without any issues. But if you live in Newcastle, say in Jesmond, fancy…

I'm not sure why you seem to be basing this on the current layout of chargers.

Right now it might be inconvenient, sure. Owning a Tesla was a few years back before superchargers existed.

I've moved out now but I didn't find it an issue to charge in London in a suburban apartment, and I deliberately went out of my way to only ever use free chargers. If I'd used the pay ones it really would have been trivial.

If Newcastle doesn't have that now, it will soon.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#234

Post by navigatesol »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #113
navigatesol wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits That's an interesting interpretation. FCA is buying ZEV credits in the market, of which Tesla has a large supply. Would you describe Facebook buying servers as "Facebook paying Intel billions so they can keep selling advertisements online"? > Please buy that Tesla Every time Tesla comes up and there's negativity, there are accusations of "paid short-sellers", w…

Sure, happy to oblige. I usually add the disclaimer to my posts, but forgot to add it here. Added to my HN profile as well. Thanks for keeping me honest! If you refer to my comment history, I don't believe I've ever mentioned "paid short sellers". Disclaimer: TSLA investor, Model S/X owner. If I ask you to buy a Tesla, it is not to help my stock, but to help move the world to electric transportation faster. If you fi…

>Any sources I cite regarding Tesla have been and will continue to be from reputable online publications.

If you consider Teslarati, Eletrek and Cleantechnica "reputable", not sure what to tell you.

That said, I appreciate the disclosure. You may have not whined about "short-sellers", but I've got it often here. It's ridiculous, and says more about the person making the accusation than anything. Even sama and pg got on-board on Twitter. We can disagree about the prospects of Tesla without resorting to conspiracy theories.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#235

Post by eMSF »

maxsilver wrote: post #206
evo_9 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a BMW i3 used; they go for sub-20k. I live in Colorado and it’s fine all year round. If you need to drive more than 120 miles in a day then yes this is still impractical, otherwise it’s the best bargain in EV land and a fun car to jet around town in.

> it’s fine all year round. How does it do on potholes? And on ice? I really wanted to love the i3, but the bicycle tires looked liked they'd be fundamentally unsafe on the ice or on any unmaintained (pothole-filled) road.

The narrow tyres of the i3 sure look funny, but I wouldn't expect it to be an issue on ice. It's pretty common knowledge around here to have narrower winter tyres than summer tyres so you don't just glide over snow, so I guess the i3 has just the right profile... for winter.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#236

Post by yardie »

cr0sh wrote: post #185
yardie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I want them to do better. As an environmentalist this vehicle goes against my ethics. It exists to allow them to sell more pollutant vehicles in California. It's all sizzle and no steak. There are better EVs out there. Most car manufacturers will take customer feedback to incorporate into newer models. FCA is having none of that with the 500e. They aren't interested in customer feedback just government CAFE r…

You should probably be angry at the CAFE regs too. It's what (supposedly) had prevented all the manufacturers from selling a small pickup, which is why Ford stopped selling the Ranger. They basically switched to making the F150, then making it larger (actually, I have suspected without proof that what they did was move models downline - sometime post 1990s, the F150 became really larger - the size of that era's F250,…

Yeah I remember something vague about CAFE and EPA rules from that era. It created a lot of perverse incentives do to poor planning. Like Hummer H2s were classified as work utility trucks and didn't have to adhere to the tight emissions rules of smaller vehicles. So you had soccer moms and realtors slap a magnetic sign on the back and, TADA!, commercial vehicle. And your "work truck" with heated leather seats was now eligible for all kinds of tax deductions.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#237

Post by maxerickson »

kube-system wrote: post #67
lukifer wrote: post #3

> Later, [GM] found some success with the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid that runs on electric power but also has a backup gas engine. The car was too expensive, though... As a happy Volt owner (I've yet to met one who didn't love theirs), I can't help but wonder if "expensive" is code for "lost service revenue because the thing is too dang low maintenance and reliable". ;)

Did they mean expensive to produce, or an expensive price tag (or both)? The Volt was a good car, but it was a $17,000 premium over something like the Prius when it launched. Even with price cuts for later model years, it was still not an easy sell for a buyer focused on economy. I think it would have sold a lot better if they had positioned it as a more upscale vehicle to match the asking price, or at least had give…

Government incentives and fleet standards.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#238

Post by bryanlarsen »

zepearl wrote: post #164
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

I have just noticed that the Volvo V60 twin-engine (hybrid) is not listed on their US nor UK sub-websites - I wonder why...? (it is listed e.g. on their Swiss and German sub-sites) https://www.volvocars.com

The dealer I talked to yesterday had price sheets for 2020 V60 T8 (PHEV) in Canada (and presumably US). So they'll be here in a few months.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#240

Post by morbm »

dsr_ wrote: post #165

It's always struck me as weird that they aren't producing hybrids in the vehicles that can most benefit from them: vans, pickups, trucks and tractors. All of these are vehicles with a focus on power and range that would benefit from the torque and simplicity of electric motors, and could easily absorb the weight penalty of a motor-generator and fuel versus more batteries. The people who buy these for functional reaso…

I believe part of the problem is that current hybrid transmissions don't handle towing well.
Post reply on HN