Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#231

Post by rloc » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #156

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

> I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. Same here (well, I have the "cheap" one without the Touch Bar). Everything has been replaced at least once (on Apple Care, fortunately) except the bottom plate. > The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying Same here. That MBA was a fine machine.

Same here. Everything in my 2016 MBP (with touchbar) has been replaced : keyboard twice, full motherboard, screen and one fan recently.

I still own a MBA from 2011 in its original state (0 repair).

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#232

Post by lajawfe » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

I can't stop but speculate if departure of Ive had anything to do with this. I guess there was a lot of push-back internally about this, but because of Ive, they had to endure 4 generations of butterfly switches. Touchbar also is just a resource hog for nothing extraordinarily useful. I haven't seen people use it too often. I bet they did user studies and found out that the Touchbar wasn't the new interaction method they hoped it would be. And now, they are planning to introduce new macs without them. I bet Ive feels bad about having to see his decisions being rolled back. Anyway, I hope the rumored 16' Macbook pro actually caters to the professionals by prioritizing thermals over thinness, and if one can wish, it would be nice if Magsafe could ride this rollback train.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#233

Post by evolutionxbox » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

iaml wrote: post #228

untog wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted about the power adapter. I miss Magsafe. But I don't miss paying ~$80 when I (admittedly, stupidly) forget my charger on a trip. I can buy a $30 USB power brick, and then a USB C extension cable for a couple of dollars if I need a longer cable. My dream is a Magsafe cable. USB C on both ends, magnetic connector in the middle (or near one end). Best of both worlds. But Apple wouldn't be able to charge $…

>My dream is a Magsafe cable Like this[0] ? [0] https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Char...

I've got a similar product, but unless the company doesn't want USB-C certification the adapter is _really easy_ to pull out.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#234

Post by dhritzkiv » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

schuke wrote: post #205

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

I didn’t even mind the non-retina display on the Air. But ffs give me an IPS panel at least. For years I see it being called the best laptop again and again by tech journalists. I always wondered if I was in a parallel universe.

Despite not having IPS, I would still consider the Air of yesteryear to be the best laptop (for most people). I had the 2012 and 2014 models and found they were the perfect balance of form factor, build quality, and non-pro performance.

I haven't evaluated the latest Retina Air, but if it improves on the non-Retina air with a better display and TouchID, it's still probably the best laptop for most people.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#235

Post by parasubvert » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

lstamour wrote: post #220

parasubvert wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devi…

I found the Magsafe adapter cords would fray, corrode, and blacken pretty easily, becoming a fire hazard. Every Macbook I owned, I would need at least one replacement over a 3 year period.

The amount of time taken to re-plugin it in vs. times it saved my laptop from flying, really it was an overrated feature. USB-C comes out easily enough.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Magsafe. But I don't understand the passion for it, it had flaws and was a (nifty) minor feature.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#236

Post by parasubvert » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #230

parasubvert wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

I get the warm and fuzzy feeling USB-C gives nerds, cause of the open standard and interoperability, and cause it only takes one attempt to actually plug it in; but I just cannot fathom how Apple replaced Magsafe with USB-C. Magsafe was one of those magical Apple features from the mid 2000s that just delight and work incredibly well and almost seem like science fiction. It's not like they had shitty power adapters an…

Magsafe adapters had quality issues. My company is all-Mac (3000 employees now), and you'd not believe the turnover of Magsafe power adapters frayed, blackened, corroding.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#237

Post by NoblePublius » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

If I can’t get discrete graphics WITHOUT a Touch Bar in October, I’m buying a Surface.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#238

Post by iSnow » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

ctime wrote: post #137

Avid user of Apple gear for many years and so happy they are throwing out that garbage. Ive never had the displeasure of actually using the butterfly keyboard on my daily driver (holding out with mid-2015 MBP 15) and dont plan on upgrading to a new Apple laptop if I have to deal with the touchbar/keyboard non—sense. You’d think with the thousands of skus they ship today they could figure out most people would be happ…

If you are an Apple user for many years, you will know that they won't go back to USB-A. And actually, that's a good thing.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#239

Post by kawsper » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #219

parasubvert wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

You cant keep everyone happy and I personally love having 4 USB-c ports, with any one of them supporting power to the mac adapter (with any 3rd party cable). I have an external UCB-C 1TB M.2 and last night it transferred an entire 50gb directory of movies in Amazon sells USB-A to USB-C converters that’s the size of a tip of an old USB-A and they work great. I have 4 of them and use them less and less as more of my ex…

I have used a converter like the one you are linking to, but they damage easily, instead I recommend one with a bit of wire, like the ones Anker sells: https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerline-usbc-to-usb... (they are also available on Amazon).

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#240

Post by skohan » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

brianpgordon wrote: post #214

kenneth wrote: post #17

Once I got used to the new keyboards, I actually far prefer them. Ditto with the TouchBar. Yeah, I'm a heretic I suppose. Keyboard: pleasant clicky-ness and little movement required. Thin AF. TouchBar: customized with BetterTouchTools to be a hybrid of my most often-used shortcuts (expand menu, alfred, fantastical, window management, and 1password on the left, notification center and lock screen on the right) and mus…

How is "little movement required" a good thing though? Having a healthy amount of key travel makes typing a lot more comfortable. I'm not impressed by thinness either. Laptops are thin enough to be functional. When Apple says "our new keyboard design is 40% thinner" it's a non sequitur. The question should be whether it's better, not whether it's thinner. That should attract ridicule like if an energy drink advertise…

I think it's impossible to make an objective judgement about whether more key travel is better or worse. Personally I got used to the new keyboard in a couple of hours, and never thought key travel again. I do like the "clickiness" of the keys, but I don't really care how far I have to press it.

I would say the toucbar is a completely useless liability, and the poor durability of the keyboard is an issue, but if they were able to produce a butterfly keyboard which worked reliably and had a physical escape key it would be more than fine for me.