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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#231

Post by gok »

dingaling wrote: post #178
dbcooperlives wrote: post #106

I have been deploying e911 call taking systems for more than 10 years. All the areas that I service have been getting pretty accurate location data on mobile callers since I started. Initially, the providers send the location of the tower they are on and the triangulation data with the call. A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls, which are usually pretty good. Sometimes…

> A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls I wish my day-to-day GPS initialised and obtained an initial fix that quickly. Usually it needs at least five minutes, sometimes over an hour. From an earlier job I vaguely remember that a NavStar cold-fix requires two or three minutes at a minimum with optimal conditions.

This is because just-GPS devices need to download ephemeris data from the satellites. Phones get it from the internet, which is much much faster.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#232

Post by mcculley »

tedmiston wrote: post #227
mcculley wrote: post #199

Today I had to call AAA to request a tow truck. I called from my cell phone and the automated system told me that it was determining my location from the cell towers and using that to route me to the best place. How does that work? I have worked with Twilio but I don't see any API for getting a caller's location. Is that something available with different providers?

Pretty sure what they're using is just cell tower triangulation. At least in my experience, they also ask you to describe your location more precisely as well.

I get that they are using cell tower triangulation. I'm wondering what API allows AAA to get that information from the incoming call. Do they have some system talking SS7? Can smaller players build something similar?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#233

Post by tzs »

forapurpose wrote: post #222
AmericanChopper wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority absolutely are. There are some examples that are not, and whenever something even remotely questionable happens, the narrative pushers jump on it immediately. If you think the vast majority aren't, then go find some examples. You won't be able to come up with more than a couple.

It would be good if either of you could back up your claims. People in minority communities around the U.S. have said for generations that the police abused them; I give that some serious credibility. Also, there is much more to abuse than killings; there are many reports on widespread abuses by police departments, such as Baltimore and New Orleans. I will add that in at least some other countries police do their job…

> It would be good if either of you could back up your claims

If any of the people in this thread wish to have a go at that, try here: http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2018

Pick a year, note how many police shootings are listed there for that year, then generate 20 random numbers in the range [1, N] where N is the number of said shootings, and look at the corresponding killings. That should give some reasonable insights.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#234

Post by confounded »

dbcooperlives wrote: post #106

I have been deploying e911 call taking systems for more than 10 years. All the areas that I service have been getting pretty accurate location data on mobile callers since I started. Initially, the providers send the location of the tower they are on and the triangulation data with the call. A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls, which are usually pretty good. Sometimes…

Thanks for writing. My immediate reaction on reading the story was “isn’t this just E911?”.

It’s a tangent, but I’ve been trying to find the answer to this question for a while, and it seems that you are one of the few people with the expertise to answer it:

Would an MNVO be able to offer a meaningfully different privacy policy to the carrier it is buying wholesale from?

The context is the recent stories of telcos being caught selling location data to cops via AGPS requests for-sale, outside of the E911 system. If, say T-Mobile sold AGPS requests on telephone numbers via an API, could an MNVO on the T-Mobile network protect its customers? Is there a particular part of infrastructure which an MNVO would need to control to ensure this?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#235

Post by sumedh »

koverda wrote: post #155
beenBoutIT wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improving the 911 EMS system won't improve police response time in Oakland because Oakland, like most of the US, has an ongoing shortage of police officers. There isn't any easy way to make the job of a police officer more attractive.

Increased pay.

What if the city does not have the money?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#236

Post by bpowah »

Undoubtedly desperately needed tech, but I don't understand why the geolocation couldn't be embedded in the voice call itself (14.4k modem style). It's such a tiny amount of data, it wouldn't need to interfere with the call at all, or necessarily even be audible. Why the need for a "clearinghouse" and a third-party private company service lock-in by already stretched emergency services?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#237

Post by namibj »

sumedh wrote: post #235
koverda wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increased pay.

What if the city does not have the money?

Take the privilege to their own police away from them. Take the city through bankruptcy. Etc... It's not some poor human who has to suffer due to that, it's lenders who the city defaults on, and who should have thought better.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#238

Post by thomasfedb »

As an Australian it's horrifying to hear the US experience with 911. We dial 000, and the standard experience is that it's picked up straight away, you answer "Police, Ambulance, or Fire" and "State and Town" and you'll be speaking to a call-taker in less than half a minute. Every now and then something goes wrong (like a big cable gets cut) and the national Telco gets an appropriately huge flogging, but 99.9% of the time it's clockwork.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#239

Post by monochromatic »

bungie4 wrote: post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing

Why? That sure seems like it should be trivial.

> altitude is not factored in

Why not? GPS can tell you your altitude.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#240

Post by cstrat »

thomasfedb wrote: post #238

As an Australian it's horrifying to hear the US experience with 911. We dial 000, and the standard experience is that it's picked up straight away, you answer "Police, Ambulance, or Fire" and "State and Town" and you'll be speaking to a call-taker in less than half a minute. Every now and then something goes wrong (like a big cable gets cut) and the national Telco gets an appropriately huge flogging, but 99.9% of the…

As an Australian who has never had to call 000... I am glad to hear that it works :)
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