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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#231

Post by code_duck »

algorias wrote: post #229
hanklazard wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My concern would be around the long-term effects of inhaling vapor from heated metal alloys. I doubt that we have enough safety data, given the newness of the tech and (I assume) the variety of metals being used. That being said, I’m no expert so please chime in if you have information around this concern.

I don't understand exactly what you're afraid of. I often prepare the food I eat in a contraption of "heated metal alloys". We know perfectly well how to make such things safe.

Different metals are in use, at different temperatures, and inhalation rather than ingestion.

Vape coils are typically kanthal, the same material as in my ceramic kiln wires, and were not designed for food/smoking purpose before people started using them for that.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#232

Post by code_duck »

Houshalter wrote: post #217
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Hats off to the NHS. Is vaping harmless? Unlikely. Based on current understanding is it likely much less harmful than smoking tobacco? Yes.

Why is this even controversial? Vaping removes almost all of the known dangers from smoking. We know smoke inhalation itself is incredibly bad for health. It was never about the nicotine. Wood smoke and general pollution is highly associated with cancer and bad health and no better than tobacco smoke. There's some evidence humans have been evolving resistance to it since the invention of fire. Suggesting it's actuall…

Don’t half of smokers die of heart disease, not lung disease? Vaping has no effect on that - it might be even delivering more nicotine and jolting the heart more than a normal cigarette. Not sure how much heart damage comes from the stimulant decreasing blood oxygen and how much is from lung damage decreasing blood oxygen, and so forth, but it seems likely vaping is bad for your heart.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#233

Post by code_duck »

reitanqild wrote: post #108
lemonberry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father's been smoking for over 50 years. I got him to switch to mostly vaping last year. The difference in his health has been profound. It almost eliminated his coughing, increased his ability to walk distances. His doctor was amazed at his last checkup. She said she couldn't recommend it to patients due to the uncertainties, but encouraged him to keep doing whatever it is that he's doing. Edit: I bought him the…

Another benefit I've seen a number of times is that people seems to have an easier time quitting. (Based on my sample of The pattern, as explained to me and IIRC, was as follows: Started vaping insteadof smoking. Tried vape with less nicotine. Worked equally well. Tried with half strength. Tried with even less. Also worked. At this point it just felt silly so they just stopped. (Note that these where young people.)

That is basically how it went for me. I tried vaping, liked it, and substituted it for cigarettes. I liked the effect but found it easier to forget about. Eventually I bought some juice I didn’t enjoy, and simply stopped using it.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#234

Post by [deleted] »

kevindong wrote: post #208

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.). It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of…

[deleted]

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#235

Post by algorias »

code_duck wrote: post #231
algorias wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand exactly what you're afraid of. I often prepare the food I eat in a contraption of "heated metal alloys". We know perfectly well how to make such things safe.

Different metals are in use, at different temperatures, and inhalation rather than ingestion. Vape coils are typically kanthal, the same material as in my ceramic kiln wires, and were not designed for food/smoking purpose before people started using them for that.

I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to sell a pot made out of unsafe materials and market it as a cooking implement. I'm also quite confident that it's technically possible to make a safe vaping device. So the issue would be a lack of regulation?

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#236

Post by code_duck »

algorias wrote: post #235
code_duck wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different metals are in use, at different temperatures, and inhalation rather than ingestion. Vape coils are typically kanthal, the same material as in my ceramic kiln wires, and were not designed for food/smoking purpose before people started using them for that.

I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to sell a pot made out of unsafe materials and market it as a cooking implement. I'm also quite confident that it's technically possible to make a safe vaping device. So the issue would be a lack of regulation?

Definitely, there is a lack of meaningful testing and regulation. Also, everything about vaping is too new to know the long term effects on human health.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#237

Post by jfoutz »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #228
jfoutz wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three weeks no tobacco. Stepping down nicotine today. I don’t like vaping much. But it has made it much easier to ramp down. I still want a cigarette every once in a while, but I think that’s going to pass in the next month or two. At least enough for me to quit the vape as well. I’d never recommend one to a nonsmoker. But, for me, it has been an effective way out of a vice. If anyone wants out, it has been working f…

The key is moderation. 1 mg of nicotine can provide really positive benefits, making it a nootropic with a decent risk profile. Granted, the downsides are addiction and temporary downregulation of dopamine receptors. A spray or lozenge is better than vaping though, mainly because we don’t know the long term effects of inhaling chemicals like propelyne glycol, for instance.

oh yes. yes there are better ways to ingest nicotine. I, however, don't have the self control to avoid smoking a pack a day. If you're the kind of person that can handle small situational doses to improve whatever you're optimizing for, go for it. Me, on the other hand, i'm a chump. Lozenges didn't really meet the need of the vice i'd set up for myself. No plans for long term vaping. In the short run, i haven't screamed at anyone. I quit once before long ago and used an ssri. Of the set lozenge, patch, gum and ssri, this seems the least painful. It's effective without me checking out from reality. The ssri's made me kind of disconnected from reality. That worked, and worked well, but the blast radius was quite a bit little larger than i really wanted. this feels much more like i can separate the specific smoking impulse without affecting my other impulses.

so, yeah. n=1. not data, just an observation. I think unrestrained smoking will kill me. Perhaps the damage is done, at it will kill me regardless. That said, continuing smoking only expands the risk profile. Vaping likely narrows the risk profile. Even if it does not, vaping is a temporary thing for me. I'll be done soon.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#238

Post by TeMPOraL »

cbhl wrote: post #178
lern_too_spel wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both citing the same source, but you're comparing 12th grade usage to middle school usage.

Ah, whelp. I forgot that high school is 9th-12th grade. Re-reading the high school numbers cigarettes are down 15.8% -> 8.0% (2011-2016) but eCigs are up 1.5% -> 11.3% (2011-2016). The gains in eCig usage still appear to cancel out the reduction in cigarette usage ("(20.2%) reported current use of some type of tobacco product"). But definitely a less dramatic effect than I originally claimed.

> The gains in eCig usage still appear to cancel out the reduction in cigarette usage

And that's still a significant net victory, given that eCigs don't have the awful health consequences regular cigarettes have.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#239

Post by daveFNbuck »

kevindong wrote: post #208

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.). It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of…

> I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz

If someone tells me not to do something, it makes me want to do it. I smoked for a while when I was 18, back before I believed anything could really harm me. It was fun and upset all the people I wanted to upset.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#240

Post by Houshalter »

code_duck wrote: post #232
Houshalter wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this even controversial? Vaping removes almost all of the known dangers from smoking. We know smoke inhalation itself is incredibly bad for health. It was never about the nicotine. Wood smoke and general pollution is highly associated with cancer and bad health and no better than tobacco smoke. There's some evidence humans have been evolving resistance to it since the invention of fire. Suggesting it's actuall…

Don’t half of smokers die of heart disease, not lung disease? Vaping has no effect on that - it might be even delivering more nicotine and jolting the heart more than a normal cigarette. Not sure how much heart damage comes from the stimulant decreasing blood oxygen and how much is from lung damage decreasing blood oxygen, and so forth, but it seems likely vaping is bad for your heart.

Yes, but what is the evidence it's the nicotine that's damaging the heart? The heart is part of your respiratory system. Inhaling regular wood smoke damages your heart:

https://samharris.org/the-fireplace-delusion/

>There is no amount of wood smoke that is good to breathe. It is at least as bad for you as cigarette smoke, and probably much worse. (One study found it to be 30 times more potent a carcinogen.) The smoke from an ordinary wood fire contains hundreds of compounds known to be carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic, and irritating to the respiratory system. Most of the particles generated by burning wood are smaller than one micron—a size believed to be most damaging to our lungs. In fact, these particles are so fine that they can evade our mucociliary defenses and travel directly into the bloodstream, posing a risk to the heart. Particles this size also resist gravitational settling, remaining airborne for weeks at a time.

And Heart disease is associated with pollution from burning fossil fuels: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MyHeartandStro...

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