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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

171–180 of 259 posts

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#171
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gum seems to be fairly traditional. Obviously the goal is "not inhaling things that aren't air".

>Gum seems to be fairly traditional Do you mean nicotine gum? Isn't that bad for your gums? Or do you mean plain chewing gum?

Not OP, but chewing normal non-nic gum is commonly used as in combination with other quitting methods to help appeal to the physical oral sensations associate with smoking (obviously it's not a perfect proxy, but just "something to do with your mouth).

Ultimately, all cessation methods are aiming to require 0 nicotine at their conclusion. As for the "best thing" to do when trying to quit, financial loss seems to be a good incentive. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1414293

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#172
> In his four years at Cape Elizabeth, Mr. Carpenter says he can’t recall seeing a single student smoke a cigarette.

Golden age syndrome. It happened, you just forget about the negative parts.

Anecdote: when I was in highschool quite recently (2004-2008), many students were regular smokers or dippers (chew tobacco). At this point, the health effects of smoking (and to a lesser extent, chew tobacco) were obviously well understood. Nevertheless, students picked up smoking etc.

Picking up vaping nicotine probably isn't great, but it beats cigarettes (and probably chew tobacco).

The important thing to remember is that overall drug and alcohol use among American teens is down, and trending down. "According to a major longitudinal study of teenagers called Monitoring the Future, high schoolers’ use of alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs (other than marijuana and vaping) have dropped to the lowest levels since the survey began in 1976."[0]

Notably, from the above December 2016 article:

> E-Cigarettes (Vaporizers): The rate for e-cigarettes among high school seniors dropped to 12.4 percent from last year’s 16.2 percent. Of note: only 24.9 percent of 12th graders report that their e-cigarettes contained nicotine (the addictive ingredient in tobacco) the last time they used, with 62.8 percent claiming they contain "just flavoring." (emphasis added)

> Attitudes and Availability: This year, more 10th graders disapprove of regular use of e-cigarettes than last year. For example, 65 percent of 10th graders say they disapprove, up from last year’s 59.9 percent. In addition, more 10th graders think it is harder to get regular cigarettes than last year; 62.9 percent said they are easy to get, compared to 66.6 percent last year. This represents a dramatic shift from survey findings two decades ago, when 91.3 percent of 10th graders thought it was easy to get cigarettes.

[0]: https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2016/12/...

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#173
post #141

>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11 percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days I'm sorry, but is [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact…

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe.

Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students’ time? Or ...

Or are we worried about stimulants in general? Or is there still some significant cancer risk from vaping? (Are people freaking out about high school students drinking too much coffee?)

If students are just replacing cigarettes with vaping, that seems like an unambiguously positive development.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#174
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, when I had regular or constant anxiety, the nicotine crave blended with it but smoking calmed both. It is very possible that a non-nicotine method of relaxation would have also worked on both, but those are rarer and/or less quick and convenient. That was one of the appeals of smoking.

Interesting. I should have written that was my experience. Anxiety isn't something I typically experience unless I've drank too much coffee or, when I was a regular smoker, needed a cigarette. I take it you're a non-smoker now. I wonder how a vape would affect that.

Yeah after 20 years smoking, I had minor (unrelated) surgery and had to stay at home for a couple weeks, so I just cold stopped smoking and that was that. I am curious too but I refrain from experimenting.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#175
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#176
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I should have written that was my experience. Anxiety isn't something I typically experience unless I've drank too much coffee or, when I was a regular smoker, needed a cigarette. I take it you're a non-smoker now. I wonder how a vape would affect that.

Yeah after 20 years smoking, I had minor (unrelated) surgery and had to stay at home for a couple weeks, so I just cold stopped smoking and that was that. I am curious too but I refrain from experimenting.

Congrats, it's a hell of a habit to quit.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.

Okay, but so is standing near combustion-engine vehicles, cooking, soldering, shopping at stores full of air freshener, and many other things. There are many other common activities that have even higher risk of death/injury.

When walking around town with my 1.5 year old, I commonly see people smoking cigarettes outside freak out and start apologizing, worried that they might blow one puff of smoke in the general direction of a baby. But at that point we are talking about a ridiculous level of concern for a trivial risk.

As they say, the dose makes the poison. We should make public policy based on careful risk analysis, not absolutist reflex.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#178
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

You're both citing the same source, but you're comparing 12th grade usage to middle school usage.

Ah, whelp. I forgot that high school is 9th-12th grade.

Re-reading the high school numbers cigarettes are down 15.8% -> 8.0% (2011-2016) but eCigs are up 1.5% -> 11.3% (2011-2016).

The gains in eCig usage still appear to cancel out the reduction in cigarette usage ("(20.2%) reported current use of some type of tobacco product"). But definitely a less dramatic effect than I originally claimed.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.

Could you please source this claim? A quick google search is revealing a lot of contrary evidence.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.

Okay, but so is standing near combustion-engine vehicles, cooking, soldering, shopping at stores full of air freshener, and many other things. There are many other common activities that have even higher risk of death/injury. When walking around town with my 1.5 year old, I commonly see people smoking cigarettes outside freak out and start apologizing, worried that they might blow one puff of smoke in the general dir…

Auto emissions are heavily regulated and many states also regulate in-door air quality including cooking so I am not sure what you are arguing for.
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