Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#201

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 12:39 AM UTC

neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

beside some deep science the biggest risk is eliquid content, but so far, beside relying on internet boards and users I couldnt find a standard test for safety

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#202

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 12:42 AM UTC

lemonberry wrote: post #9

neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

My father's been smoking for over 50 years. I got him to switch to mostly vaping last year. The difference in his health has been profound. It almost eliminated his coughing, increased his ability to walk distances. His doctor was amazed at his last checkup. She said she couldn't recommend it to patients due to the uncertainties, but encouraged him to keep doing whatever it is that he's doing. Edit: I bought him the…

got my mom had a device, before she had a heart attack, then she stopped smoking for a while, but she hates tech so much, she got back to smoking instead of vaping to fill nicotin craves.

it's hard to convince people some times (also not helping that things are still fuzzy and depending on your friends, you can also hear horror stories like lung cancer due to weird vaping byproducts ..)

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#203

Post by danisth » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 12:44 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #185

mchannon wrote: post #36

A generation ago these kids would've gotten busted for smoking old-fashioned cigarettes ("Smokin' in the boys room"). Two generations ago it was legal to buy (at some states at age 16) and legal to possess and use, except on school grounds. Three generations ago it was legal even in doctor's offices and hospitals. California and Massachusetts (and oddly enough, Mississippi) are stoking up a new hysteria with public h…

Only a generation ago smoking was still allowed at many high schools. It was at mine (1980s). There was a designated outdoor smoking area for the kids that smoked.

My high school had an on property smoking area until around 2003. The east coast of Canada can be pretty backwards I guess..

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#204

Post by pducks32 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 1:02 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #185

mchannon wrote: post #36

A generation ago these kids would've gotten busted for smoking old-fashioned cigarettes ("Smokin' in the boys room"). Two generations ago it was legal to buy (at some states at age 16) and legal to possess and use, except on school grounds. Three generations ago it was legal even in doctor's offices and hospitals. California and Massachusetts (and oddly enough, Mississippi) are stoking up a new hysteria with public h…

Only a generation ago smoking was still allowed at many high schools. It was at mine (1980s). There was a designated outdoor smoking area for the kids that smoked.

I wonder if they had one now, only for cigarettes, how many kids would do it and withstand the social humiliation that exists with teenagers around smoking cigarettes.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#205

Post by cctt23 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 1:31 AM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #184

Pulcinella wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto emissions are heavily regulated and many states also regulate in-door air quality including cooking so I am not sure what you are arguing for.

I speculate that standing near existing (heavily regulated) combustion vehicles, going to existing (heavily regulated) restaurants, cooking using existing (regulated) methods and tools, etc. has a decent chance of being a greater health risk than breathing nicotine alone. I am not an expert though, so would love to hear some actual evidence about it. We have now had decades of (publicly beneficial) propaganda effort…

http://acronymrequired.com/2011/10/the-four-dog-defense.html

It’s a bit wearying to hear the old chestnuts trotted out here of all places. It seems like bad arguments and FUD never really change, they just finds new adherents.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#206

Post by vkou » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 1:35 AM UTC

narag wrote: post #197

vkou wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I recall of being a kid, kids are using it to get social validation. Also, because once you get addicted, nicotine withdrawal is bloody awful.

I'm always surprised that the main reason people smoke is not cited first. For all you that haven't done it: smoking causes pleasure. A fast, intense and repeatable pleasure.

As someone who's never smoked, but has stood next to people who have, I would guess it does quite the opposite. I imagine most people who don't smoke think this.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#207

Post by zamalek » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

notvplez wrote: post #46

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the risk that ecigs are an on ramp to actual cigarette smoking. That reflects my experience, first using a friends vape now and then to bumming the occasional cigarette to actual smoking. There's a symmetry we don't like to acknowledge between what makes vapes good for quitting - you can slowly ramp your nicotine - and what makes vapes good for starting. See this study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamape…

As someone who quit smoking thanks to vaping I cannot fathom why anyone would go the other direction. Why not just continue vaping instead?

Because you only realize how terrible smoking is once you've been stuck with it for a few years.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#208

Post by kevindong » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 2:09 AM UTC

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.).

It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of tobacco/nicotine when I graduated in 2015.

It's well settled science that using these types of products cannot possibly be good for you. It baffles me why anyone would intentionally create an addiction/habit that, at absolute best, is neutral for your health.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#209

Post by shermanyo » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 2:16 AM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #68

notvplez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who quit smoking thanks to vaping I cannot fathom why anyone would go the other direction. Why not just continue vaping instead?

Well they're dumb kids for one. But also smoking feels better than vaping. From what I've looked into it seems that tobacco smoke contains not just nicotine but also MAOIs which amplify the addictiveness and pleasure of the nicotine. Do note that I've quit now, through cold turkey though.

I disagree from personal experience. Smoke is harsh and never tasted appealing to me. Vaping at a low nicotine level is a much more enjoyable experience.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#210

Post by jfoutz » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 2:27 AM UTC

LordKano wrote: post #95

lemonberry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father's been smoking for over 50 years. I got him to switch to mostly vaping last year. The difference in his health has been profound. It almost eliminated his coughing, increased his ability to walk distances. His doctor was amazed at his last checkup. She said she couldn't recommend it to patients due to the uncertainties, but encouraged him to keep doing whatever it is that he's doing. Edit: I bought him the…

I smoked for about 18 years and I made the switch to vaping a few years ago. I haven't completely given up tobacco smoking but I have cut back tremendously. I tried to quit several times, I tried the gum, the patches, Chantix and cold turkey. None of them allowed me to successfully quit. Vaping was good enough to temper the nicotine cravings enough that I could otherwise function without regular smoking. I have cut b…

Three weeks no tobacco. Stepping down nicotine today. I don’t like vaping much. But it has made it much easier to ramp down.

I still want a cigarette every once in a while, but I think that’s going to pass in the next month or two. At least enough for me to quit the vape as well.

I’d never recommend one to a nonsmoker. But, for me, it has been an effective way out of a vice. If anyone wants out, it has been working for me. Definitely worth considering.