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Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

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Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#231

Post by zloof »

abeyer wrote: post #33
farorm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the first thing they teach you at YC, always be having that recurring revenue.

It's also one of the first things to turn off a new consumer thinking about taking a chance on an unknown brand. You're fighting the reputation of generations of scammers who promised "cancel any time" and either weasel-worded the small print or just outright ignored cancellation requests to charge as much as possible to recurring bills.

Well hopefully through this thread at least we've convinced you we aren't scammers :-)

Seriously though, definitely something we are not about - would love to grab beers with anyone (in SF) who wants to learn more about our company/values text us/me (650) 823-4287.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#232

Post by hellothree23 »

freese wrote: post #184
jlarocco wrote: post #158

I've recently cut down to one or two cups a day, and I'm not super picky, so I'm not the target market here, but I'll give my two cents anyway in case it helps. Number one, $19 for 8 cups of instant coffee seems really expensive. I can get a really good basic coffee around here (Boulder, CO) for between $1.50 and $3, depending on size and quality. If the instant costs almost as much, I might as well just walk across…

Thanks for the feedback! The price is that high because of the quality of coffee and process we use. My co-founder Josh wrote a blog post about it here: https://goo.gl/mYuxkt Re: extraction - We've thought of that. With our current equipment it's not possible. I think the more realistic way would be to extract the coffee once and sell the spent grounds to another company for further extraction.

I'd plus one the price too...its laughably expensive. plus the packaging is extraordinarily wasteful. I'd say the process needs major work to reduce the price point and rethink out the packaging. I actually drink instant when I'm camping and would love to try it but I would consider this product super niche because it's honestly not much more work to just do a pour over of real coffee (for less money).

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#233

Post by brogrammernot »

zloof wrote: post #76
huhtenberg wrote: post #21

Wasn't a problem with "bad" instant coffee largely solved by Starbucks VIA, which too utilizes a novel tech that produces very decent results? Even the mega snobs of /r/coffee were largely OK with it came out few years ago. Also, re: this - Instant coffee is liquid coffee that’s been dehydrated. It’s normally made with the worst beans ... Next, the liquid is boiled down and finally dehydrated by spray drying it with…

So I'd say look at it like a spectrum. In the cafe world there is - average/ not-so-great drip coffee --> Starbucks --> Speciality/ Third Wave Coffee. I don't know how VIA makes their product, but if you do a side-by-side taste test with Sudden vs VIA, I 100% guarantee you will notice (and prefer) Sudden. We do in fact use a pretty unique bean selection + brewing process to achieve it. Re: drying techniques - it real…

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but do you really see this company taking off? You're battling the known perception of instant coffee being awful and trying to sell a super premium product within a group that's tailored to buy cheap coffee because they just don't care. That's just a brutal uphill battle from a consumer education standpoint and a price comparison standpoint.

I get that you're not trying to compare your product, which I'm sure has great quality, to the $8 jar of instant coffee but that's what the general consumer is going to do.

I will openly admit, I hated coffee until I tried a fresh cup from a friend who owns his own small business roasting coffee beans and it was incredible.

I truly hope you do succeed as that'll ideally allow you to run larger production runs to drive down costs to more affordable prices for everyone.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#234

Post by zloof »

jacquesm wrote: post #163
freese wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that we have a high barrier of entry. We tried lowering it last year when we offered one-off purchases. However, that just doesn't work with our current user acquisition model. Even if we get a lower number of subscribers their LTV is much, much higher.

It's not about LTV of your customers for you. This could easily be interpreted as 'when given a chance to try the product without a subscription a large percentage of the trials led nowhere'. That you get a larger LTV out of an automatic conversion is a given, it would be extremely surprising if that were not the case. I would suggest that you try to get to the point where your LTV of customers trying one paid/free s…

Short answer - we're starting to experiment with trial options. This is a link to a 2-cup trial that converts to a sub: https://www.suddencoffee.com/?trial=true

Longer answer - sort of but not that simple in our current state. Even if you absolutely love a product, often times you don't buy again. Many reasons for this - it's a pain to checkout again, you don't have your credit card on you, you forgot about it, you're just too busy with other stuff.

If we had an Uber-like app - one click to order, saves your credit card, sends you push notifications to remind you - it would be a lot more feasible to send you a single cup of coffee and make it really really easy for you to buy again. Unfortunately, it's hard for us to do that right now and we end up losing a lot of people who truly did love the product.

Before LTV or any of that stuff - the big question is if we call up our subscribers, are they happy? We hear again and again "Yes, I love the product, I love that it shows up, it tastes great and saves me time". We would not be building a subscription service if that were not the case.

However, we are absolutely testing different trial options to get at what you're talking about.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#235

Post by jtmcmc »

bigtunacan wrote: post #142
tyre wrote: post #123

Maybe I'm biased, as a fellow YC founder, but I don't understand the negativity. 1) Sudden is the first company that I've actually considered buying instant coffee from. In the US, there's a pretty strong stigma against it, so that's not an easy task. 2) $3 per cup isn't a lot of money, roughly equivalent to a cup of coffee elsewhere in SF. Especially if I don't have to stop anywhere and can just put it in a water bo…

There is definitely some SV bubble around this. I can buy a local cafe pour over cup for less than this product. I can buy my own beans and heat the kettle and pour that over in less than 5 minutes. If I'm desperate and in hurry then I can make a cup of Keurig for a fraction of the cost.

Definitely can't buy a pour over in the bay area for under 4 dollars so this is a better price than that - also I can just put this into hot or cold water and instantly have high quality coffee? That's pretty nice.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#236

Post by Johnnybe »

RussianCow wrote: post #183
truthexposer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is your target? If people want good tasting coffee, like a connoisseur, one would like the option of selecting the type of bean, where it is sourced from, how it's roasted, how it's ground, how it's brewed etc. People even vehemently oppose and stand by brewing methods, which to an ordinary person who doesn't care about coffee, wouldn't care about. And if someone is buying instant coffee anyways, I doubt they car…

I don't have any evidence to support this other than anecdotes, but I would bet there is a much larger group in the middle than you imply. Plenty of people (myself included) appreciate good coffee without being fanatical about it. If you can offer the same taste as pourover without the work, I think you can capture quite a significant portion of the market. But then again, I could be overestimating that based on my o…

I'm also in this segment of the market. However, only when pressed for time, which is during the week. On the weekends I take my time and brew pour overs.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#237

Post by Johnnybe »

Balgair wrote: post #114
ryanSrich wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every flight I've been on with Starbucks VIA has been absolute trash. Airplane coffee quite literally tastes like it was made with toilet water. That's honestly the only way I can describe it. I'm bearish on any improvements because I'm convinced the problem is the water they use.

The decrease in air pressure and humidity also have big effects on your sensation of food(smell and taste) http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-food-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9408563

Not true, I took an Aeropress on an international flight and made fresh coffee throughout the flight. It tasted great. The hot stewardesses had no problem letting me use their hot water which was nice.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#238

Post by jtmcmc »

This seems great - I've bought a subscription and look forward to trying it at the office. I hope it's as good as you say so I can try and convince our ops folks to order it at work.

Curious - have you considered doing coffee tastings at local (or YC) startups to try and get recurring subscriptions at businesses?

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#239

Post by pbreit »

zloof wrote: post #55
alaskamiller wrote: post #22

I work in the coffee industry and saw Sudden pop up last year so was interested in the technique and hacked it out. Freeze dried coffee is already what Folgers does and sell you. This is the more artisanal version of that since the big brands have big factories that can pump out plenty of instant coffee grounds. So this is a ramped up volume play on existing techniques perfected by the doomsday preppers. Youtube sear…

Happy to answer whatever questions we can disclose! Thanks for starting the thread. It's somewhere in the middle to be honest. We did not invent freeze dried coffee - it's been around for over a century. However, it is quite difficult to make it work at-scale in a way that's profitable/sustainable, and that still tastes good. I have a pretty extensive background in operations, manufacturing, & tech and I had to pull…

How long do opened and unopened tubes last?

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#240

Post by donw »

freese wrote: post #180
donw wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. From where I sit, Starbucks Via Instant is the competition. It's a notch above the urns of Folgers Freeze-Dried in the grocery store, but like all things Starbucks, still too bitter to really enjoy on its own. Okay, so I'm not a coffee snob. I'll brew at home in the morning with water at the right temperature, but I'll use pre-ground beans from a vacuum pack. Sure, freshly roasted tastes way better, but as…

Really appreciate the thoughtful feedback - thanks!

Good luck!
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