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Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

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Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#221

Post by dragonwriter »

john_b wrote: post #68
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I don't know if this reflects one or more widespread trends, but as someone who plays amateur hockey I've found that a very large number fellow players are engineers, programmers, market researchers, or some other white collar professional occupation. At least at non-professional levels, the sport seems to be full of very intelligent people, but not necessarily "intellectuals" per se. It could just be a self-selectio…

> but given how popular sports of all types are (both watching and playing) among so many different types of people I am amazed that the denizens of ivory towers have been able to maintain the stereotype of sports as "low brow" for so long.

I don't think that stereotype actually exists in "the denizens of ivory towers" so much as the stereotype of "denizens of ivory towers" holding that stereotype exists in the minds of people who identify themselves in opposition to "denizens of ivory towers".

Actually academics, whether fairly described as "denizens of ivory towers" or not, seem, IME, to be no less interest in sport qua sport than anyone else -- plenty of them fans of the popular professional sports, and plenty of those that aren't not disdaining them so much as being busier with other things, whether academic/professional pursuits, family, or even their own personal involvement in some form of sport, and not taking time for participation in the ritual of major professional sport spectation.

> It's deeply, tragically ironic when you consider that the origins of those same intellecutal bubbles are rooted in Greek and Roman classical studies, both cultures that prized a well developed body and mind, and considered a man incomplete if he lacked either

I don't think tribal attachment to and spectating major professional sports has any connection to a "well-developed body and mind".

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#222

Post by monocasa »

[deleted] wrote: post #207
Glyptodon wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

[deleted]

Nobody other than you said anything about banning sports.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#223

Post by t0nyh0 »

toolz wrote: post #176
RobAtticus wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's the case if you also got rid of the other professions that make up celebrities: musicians, actors/actresses, etc. I doubt removing just sports would suddenly make scientists/philanthropists household names. You'd essentially have to get rid of all forms of entertainment to do that, which seems a bit ridiculous. Besides, many athletes ARE philanthropists, who work hard to give back to their communities. A…

> Focus on the athletes who do things the right way: work hard, take care of themselves physically and financially In many sports this in non-existent. The only people not taking performance enhancing drugs are the ones not getting caught. When billions of dollars are involved it's more than just a gentle suggestion that these professionals take drugs or enhancement. And besides, what makes you a better arbiter of wh…

> In many sports this in non-existent. The only people not taking performance enhancing drugs are the ones not getting caught. When billions of dollars are involved it's more than just a gentle suggestion that these professionals take drugs or enhancement.

That is quite the accusation. Stereotyping at best. Because that incentive model exists in your head does not mean it reflects reality.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#224

Post by tjradcliffe »

CocaKoala wrote: post #6
serve_yay wrote: post #2

Sports are so prevalent that if you're not interested, it must be an affect :) I can watch some sports for a while (basketball and football), but after a couple hours it gets pretty boring, plus I've probably had some beers so the combination tends to make me sleepy. It was exciting when I was in college and rooting for my team at the stadium and all that, but how people connect with teams outside of such a setting h…

It helps a lot if you have a friend who's really passionate about the sport; you can leech off of their passion until you develop some of your own. When I started dating the woman who would later be my wife, I would occasionally watch hockey games with her; she is from Detroit and grew up an ardent, passionate fan of the Red Wings. After a few games of her explaining the rules and strategy, telling me about the fanta…

I think you're underestimating the crashing indifference some of us feel toward all sports. It's not cultivated, and it's not that we haven't tried or been exposed to other's enthusiasms. It's not that we haven't played a bit ourselves, even, at least at beer-league level.

My whole family is pretty nuts about American football, so I grew up surrounded by it and can still appreciate the beauty and complexity of the game, the strategy and execution. But I watch the Superbowl and that's it. I just can't be bothered with anything else.

I used to play soccer with a bunch of Europeans who could happily discuss Champions League play for hours. Never was able to muster up the interest to do more than fake a short conversation.

I followed baseball for long enough to survive a World Series while living in the US, during which time it was impossible to have a conversation with anyone about anything that didn't involve the game. My interest lapsed the moment the last bat was swung. It was just too much work to maintain.

Why do sports leave some of us so utterly flat? I have no idea (although from reading some of the comments here apparently the world is full of people who can tell on the basis of a few short sentences the entirety of a person's motivations, which is a pretty good trick.) But it's the reality. So yeah, you can choose how much effort you want to put into being a sports fan, but for some of us the amount of effort required to engage beyond the most brain-dead superficial level is huge compared to the effort the average fan puts in following their favourite team.

For whatever reason, some of us face a wall of indifference that makes the effort of surmounting it simply not worth it.

[I half expect replies to tell me that "no I really just don't understand how beautiful $GAME is", which is the flip side of that uncanny ability to know everything about a person's motivations.]

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#225

Post by mindcrime »

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I grew up working class and was a boxer. I love Ice Hockey, Football, UFC, NASCAR, Motocross, and heavy metal, but I am also an academic and an intellectual. Many highly educated people have told me so, I just don't have the paper to prove it.

I hear ya. I wrestled in high-school, did a lot of BMX biking in my younger years (and still ride a little, even now in my 40's), used to dabble in amateur power-lifting a bit, mountain-bike these days, and used to participate in some brazilian jiu-jitsu / submission wrestling / MMA stuff. I also grew up watching NASCAR and Indy Car racing, and I'm a diehard NFL fan (#PHINSUP!!!) But I'm also a pretty well educated (3 college degrees) guy who listens to both heavy-metal and classical music, reads Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Foucalt, Wittgenstein, etc. for fun, reads The Economist semi-regularly, etc.

I won't use the term "intellectual" to refer to myself, but many of my friends think of me as something of an "intellectual". I just think the whole thing is silly. I'm "working class" in many ways, but I share characteristics, attributes and interests with the intellectuals. So yeah, I would say that this whole "disdain of the working class and working class interests, by intellectuals" me strikes me as pretty stupid.

When a kids says, "Hockey. Meh. It is a bunch grown men with sticks chasing a black piece of rubber around a sheet of ice" he is saying in effect "What you love is obtuse and low brow and I don't care how that makes you feel." And that is just rude.*

It's also ignorant. There is a lot of wisdom and truth to be learned on the hockey ice, the football field, the wrestling mat, etc. Sport is just a compressed version of life in many ways.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#226

Post by FireBeyond »

chez17 wrote: post #115
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

So I'm not allowed to dislike sports? It makes me a snob?

I don't believe so, per se. I think though, that if - as there are examples in this thread - you feel compelled to be sure everyone is aware of the disdain you have, replete with remarks like "overpaid gorillas" "getting paid far too much to chase a piece of rubber around with some sticks", then you do veer into snob territory, a la The Onion's Man Who Doesn't Own A TV.

While there are many valid arguments to be made about sport and the importance thereof, it's also condescending for someone (not you specifically) to act like this - there's quite a degree of talent and skill and hard work that I think a lot of people don't quite realize. "Oh, he's a good player, but I could have played college ball, and made it".

No, most likely you couldn't. There's a huge gap in skill.

I played cricket as a teen and we had two international players come to our club for a BBQ and hit around session. The kids bowling to them, they just blocked.

The adults, several of whom played at the state level themselves and to us were "very skilled"?

No. Not in comparison. Everything they threw at these guys was hit out of the park. I'm not exaggerating. Fast, slow, skilled players. Every. Single. Ball. Out of the park without a bounce. It gives you a realization of the level of talent and skill to play at that level.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#227

Post by pekk »

BurgerEarmuffs wrote: post #48

Thank zeus for this article. Sports is a 4 letter word in a lot of social circles (academia, tech to a decent extent) and it usually just reeks of pretentiousness. I find myself having to be unusually careful not to bring up sports when talking to anyone in tech I don't know well, whereas I rarely have that issue outside of it. Congratulations, you dismissed the entirety of American football as "roid rage violence".…

It seems that a certain number of sports fans like yourself get automatically butthurt if someone doesn't play along with them. You're not entitled to that. And the majority of the US has been strongly shaming anyone who doesn't share your interest for their entire life, calling them gay. So I even understand why someone might make a point in public of how they are NOT ashamed to be someone who was never into sports. It's their fucking right.

If someone on the internet says "roid rage violence" I am going to ignore it, not get outraged. You can cry me a river about how badly bullied you are because of hearing that phrase, poor you.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#228

Post by eric_cc »

nerfhammer wrote: post #167
mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

I find this view to be highly overly teleological. The idea that there's really a secret nefarious purpose is one of those extraordinary claims that needs extraordinary evidence

I don't know that he necessarily means that sports were designed with these purposes in mind. Sports/games in general have always been diversions and that's why they're popular.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#230

Post by hnnewguy »

timr wrote: post #94
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

"When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills." That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste? How about this: "when you show overt contempt for fast food, you are showing contempt for most everybody, and that is a problem with your social skills." If I don't eat at McD…

>What other corporate products must I consume

There is more to "sports" than watching them on TV. How about participating in them? It's good for your health, sort of like not eating McDonald's.

>If I don't eat at McDonalds because I care about my health, am I unfit for socialization?

There's a difference between "not eating" (or "not liking"), and "showing overt contempt" towards.

So, yes. If you don't understand that, your social skills are probably lacking.

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