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Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

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Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#201

Post by dragonwriter »

nwienert wrote: post #162
civilian wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of commercials required to watch a game of football is intrinsically bad. The tax exempt status of the NFL is intrinsically bad.

But you being a snob about it to other people is also intrinsically bad. Disliking other peoples hobbies that cause no harm to others is intrinsically bad. Intrinsically bad.

> Disliking other peoples hobbies that cause no harm to others is intrinsically bad.

Granting, for the sake of argument, that that generality is true, I'm not sure how it applies to the actual issue here; particularly, I'm not sure how hobbies that are subsidized at public expense -- and therefore at the expense of competing public priorities -- can be said to "cause no harm to others".

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#202

Post by t0nyh0 »

toolz wrote: post #153
rinon wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are sports unhealthy? They are in fact extremely healthy, in the physical sense. Professional sports are simply an outgrowth of more "natural" sporting activities. Sports, even the professional variety, are not carefully engineered social prisons, but an evolution of natural human activities: physical activity and training combined with competition and the desire to observe others who are better than one's self.…

Professional sports are anything but healthy, as soon as competition is even remotely recognized and praised illicit drugs come onto the scene. As for a more idealistic world and my choice, I never even hinted at trying to legislate your ability to do what you want, but if you want me to clap and jump up and down and pick a favorite team because a bunch of grown people make ridiculous sums of money doing absolutely n…

> because a bunch of grown people make ridiculous sums of money doing absolutely nothing for our future, well, count me out.

I think they can potentially do plenty for the future. For example, why does Nadal always put two bottles in the exact same position while playing a tennis match? Hey, maybe this will be useful for some research in psychology. Or maybe a survey of head injuries in football can lead to better health care. These sportsmen are usually at the edge of physical ability. Any attempt to push the envelope gives us the opportunity to learn more about ourselves.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#203

Post by ska »

lotharbot wrote: post #86
scotch_drinker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is contempt. It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X. You may not look down on them but when someone says "I don't see how anybody...", that is contempt. Not understanding is vastly different from expressing disbelief that anyone would do a particular thing.

> "It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X." Taken more charitably, it merely implies that one does not understand the valid reasons for liking X. There's a difference between saying "there's nothing of value here" and "I don't see why this is of value" -- one is phrased as an objective statement, while the other is a statement of perspective. Long ago, my wife told me she didn't understand why people l…

"Taken more charitably, it merely implies that one does not understand the valid reasons for liking X."

And therein lies the rub. Interpreting others statements charitably and trying to make your own clear and unambiguous can reduce an awful lot of social friction.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#204

Post by timr »

FireBeyond wrote: post #200
timr wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Of course, if you phrase it in a way similar to how you did above, people will most likely just think you were an asshole." Of course, a similar thought most likely crossed my mind when I read the parent comment.

The difference being the parent made a valid point that you're not even willing to entertain - the notion that people can enjoy a sport, at the highest level, without enjoying the crass commercialization that might accompany it. But you couldn't respond without an indictment of how brainwashed he is, in your opinion. I love basketball. I grew up playing and refereeing it. I lost interest for about a decade, because t…

"But you couldn't respond without an indictment of how brainwashed he is, in your opinion."

I encourage you to quote that part of my comment. For bonus points, quote the part where I said I can't understand why people enjoy sports.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#205

Post by yuncun »

belorn wrote: post #57
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

> It's called being a snob I kind of disagree with that label, as it imply that its only is a problem with higher education. The working class show the same overt contempt at people who watch e-sports, snooker, and other sports which isn't directly associated with the working class culture.

I think your mistaking apathy for disdain. Just because marinekingprime isn't revered like Lionel Messi doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against egaming. People just don't care, and there is nothign wrong with that.

I just finished my undergrad, and I've realized that the 'jocks hate nerds' has become severely outdated in my generation. Like the parent commentor, I grew up in both worlds; My athletic, frat-boy, 'jock' friends are often loud and obnoxious, but they don't hate quieter, 'nerd' folks. Rather, they just don't really care. On the other hand, I've found that a lot of my CS friends care a ridiculous amount, often feeling persecuted by mainstream social people for no reason. Ive had to hear a ridiculous amount of shit talk about fratboys and sorority girls (who in turn are mostly pretty cool).

Nowadays I've found that the real assholes in the "jocks hate nerds" equation have become the 'nerds'.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#206

Post by wutbrodo »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #169
wutbrodo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X. This is completely wrong. You're essentially saying here that "I don't understand the valid reason for X" necessarily means "therefore X has no valid reason". I really hope you're just confused here, as opposed to actually believing this line of thought and applying it to things in general. To use my example again, when I say "I don't understand the appeal at a…

This bites me occasionally, You're essentially saying here that "I don't understand the valid reason for X" necessarily means "therefore X has no valid reason". The thing that bites me is that I can say something like this and mean it as you do, and yet the person hearing it insists on interpreting incorrectly. I find this is especially true in conversations with a lot of emotional components. Any time the listener o…

There's no misunderstanding on my part about what the relationship is between fans and their teams. Rather, I don't understand what motivates that relationship. (by contrast, it's obviously much clearer why you'd have that relationship to your kids).

My best understanding of it is nothing more than the same blind tribalism that is responsible for so much of what is terrible with the world. As I said though, I prefer to think there's an alternative, more valid explanation that I'm just unaware of.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#207

Post by [deleted] »

Glyptodon wrote: post #172
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

[deleted]

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#208

Post by mindcrime »

Bethany Bryson, a sociologist at JMU has shown that increased education is associated with increased inclusiveness in musical taste (i.e., highly educated people like more types of music) but that these people are most likely to reject music that is highly favored by the least educated people. Her paper’s title sums up the attitude: "Anything But Heavy Metal".

This is hilarious given that there have been studies showing that metal fans are smarter than non-metal fans! At any rate, the idea that interest in heavy-metal marks one as "working class" or "non-intellectual" is totally absurd. But, then again, so is the idea that "intellectual" and "working class" are disjoint sets. (Yes, you can define either or both terms to create that distinction, but it's clearly not true when using the vernacular / intuitive definition for both).

As far as sports... I have never understood the attitude some self-styled "intellectuals" have in regards to sports. There is a tremendous amount of benefit to be gained from participating in sports of various types, and if one participates in a sport at an amateur level, it follows that one's passion for that sport would extend to wanting to watch the highest level competitors compete with each other.

I suppose the analogy would make sense to the "intellectual" set if you just defined chess as a sport. :-)

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#210

Post by dragonwriter »

rinon wrote: post #126
timr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills." That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste? How about this: "when you show overt contempt for fast food, you are showing contempt for most everybody, and that is a problem with your social skills." If I don't eat at McD…

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

> However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.

Any action can be interpreted as offensive and hostile. That that is true of an action has no substantial meaning.

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