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Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

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Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#101

Post by wutbrodo »

scotch_drinker wrote: post #61
wutbrodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the latter isn't contempt. I feel like I don't understand why anyone is interested in watching sports (as opposed to playing), but I certainly don't look down on them for it. At the very least, I know enough people that I respect that are into pro sports that it would be inconsistent to think something like "people who are into pro sports have nothing better to occupy their time and their minds".

It is contempt. It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X. You may not look down on them but when someone says "I don't see how anybody...", that is contempt. Not understanding is vastly different from expressing disbelief that anyone would do a particular thing.

> It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X.

This is completely wrong. You're essentially saying here that "I don't understand the valid reason for X" necessarily means "therefore X has no valid reason". I really hope you're just confused here, as opposed to actually believing this line of thought and applying it to things in general. To use my example again, when I say "I don't understand the appeal at all", I'm literally saying that _I_ don't understand it: I assume there's just something I'm missing about pro sports or some as-yet-unknown difference in my preferences that makes me averse to watching it.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#102

Post by TeMPOraL »

baddox wrote: post #37

> Several years ago, I was at a talk by Michael Albert at MIT where he chastised American intellectuals for what he claimed was cultivated disdain of professional sports. Is that a thing? I've certainly never noticed it from the outside looking in on American intellectualism, or from my more direct experience with educated acquaintances. My own take is that I enjoy athletic excellence, but disdain the laughably irrat…

Indeed. My dislike for sports is twofold - for one, I suck at it (wearing glassess at the age of 10 didn't help in becoming a good soccer player, especially goalkeeper), and I find it boring. Though I'm aware this is something easily changed when one starts playing more.

But the second issue I have is an issue with the culture around professional sport, which is exactly as you described. It highlights the worst aspects of humans - extreme irrationality and willingness to go to a conflict over a completely arbitrary things. I strive to avoid participating in that.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#103

Post by ggreer »

I don't follow sports, but I also don't go around professing my ignorance. If someone changes the topic to sports, I still engage with them. I ask questions, and they're usually happy to answer. A couple days ago, someone delighted in telling me the story of Marshawn Lynch. (I had to look up the name, but I did remember his antics with the press.)

Having common ground with more people is not a bad argument for learning about sports. But I do have some qualms with the author's decision.

First, I cannot stress this enough: American football is an odious sport. Players regularly suffer concussions, traumatic brain injuries, and joint trauma. Permanent and debilitating injuries are common. The average player lasts 3.5 years in the NFL. Then they are spat out and left to deal with a lifetime of health issues. Yes, players freely choose their profession. So what? The same argument can be used to defend dueling. Football is bad and people should feel guilty watching it. If you're going to watch a popular sport, watch baseball.

But really, what's so bad about being out of touch with most Americans? Why draw the line at political borders? By population, vastly more people love cricket or soccer than American football. I don't mind being out of touch with sports enthusiasts regardless of their country of origin. If you're like me and you spend most of your time with people who aren't interested in sports, there's no point in learning about football or baseball. You already have common ground. Is that living in a bubble? Yes. I like living in a bubble. Economist Bryan Caplan explains the position better than I can.[1]

1. http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/03/my_beautiful_bu....

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#105

Post by nitrogen »

bglazer wrote: post #84

I'm not sure how I feel about this article. On the one hand, it had a weird highbrow tone. It reads a bit like an ivory tower academic discovering what "the poors" are up to. Some choice quotes: "Albert suggested that sports reflect the go-to topic for small talk and building rapport across class and context" "Sports are popular because people, in general, find them fun to watch". No shit! Lots of people like sports.…

Disdain for sports is pointless social signalling that is ultimately divisive.

So is participation in sports. People don't dislike sports because they were born that way; they dislike them because they didn't like the effect they had on e.g. their high school or college.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#107

Post by balls187 »

voidlogic wrote: post #35
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

>The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I don't have statistics, so this is all anecdotal, but most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc. The reality you present sounds more like movies than real life. For example, I can see Dr. Epps from Numb3rs being snoody about sports in a way I have never se…

> ut most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc.

One of my favorite CS profs loved his Duke Blue Devils, and was an avid Bulls fan (really who wasn't).

I think that the disdain people have from sports may stem from a general disdain that arises from being an outcast.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#108

Post by toolz »

lotharbot wrote: post #77
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

> he is saying in effect "What you love is obtuse and low brow" More than that, he is in effect saying "there is no depth to this thing" (which he hasn't studied in depth enough to know). Which is both rude and arrogant. It's one thing to say you don't understand a thing and aren't interested in it, and then politely discuss things you are (mutually) interested in. It's quite another to distill something you don't un…

Depth can have a real defined meaning, though. If you're in the context of discovering a process that will make electricity cheaper and cleaner, that is useful to everyone around the world in some way and then to have someone overshadow that achievement or ignore it entirely because 'the game' is on, is ridiculous. I live in the south east where when a college football coach has a problem with the university president, the president is lucky to last longer than a year.

There's obviously nothing objectively bad about enjoying sports, but the ravenous obsession with sports is not exactly uncommon and to pretend we should celebrate it is not in the best interest of humanity.

There is a reason a lot (most?) NFL players go bankrupt shortly after their career of being paid far more than will reflect their contribution to the future of mankind. It's because that grouping of people has a lot of backwards thinking and irresponsibility attached to it.

It's very interesting to me that someone, here, in academia, is having to defend their disdain to the vocal majority about their distaste for sports culture when it does nothing long term for our species good and could easily be argued to be detrimental via opportunity cost thrown away in human potential that grew up believing it was more prestigious to be a football player than a scientist.

So am I annoyed? A bit. Do I generalize based on your taste for sports? No. Do I think your choice to praise athletes over scientists is detrimental to society? Yes, I do.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#109

Post by balls187 »

grandalf wrote: post #75

I've tried multiple times to become interested in spectator sports. To date the only ones I find even mildly interesting are: - NBA Finals basketball - World Series of Poker - UFC Football is slow-paced and disheartening b/c of all the drives that end with a punt. Baseball is slow-paced. Hockey is OK but after a watching for 10 minutes I start to get board. Tennis and Golf are both extremely frustrating as well. I lo…

> - UFC

If you have a chance, I recommend going to a live local MMA show. They're a lot of fun.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#110

Post by foobarqux »

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

There is a difference between playing sports, supporting your kids playing sports and following professional sports. I think there a far more people who have disdain for pro sport fandom than participation in sports.
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